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why psytrance has become SHIT
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : May 31, 2013 12:25
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : May 31, 2013 12:28
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i am very surprised to see so many people getting angry about what they did.
anybody making music outside of their "formula" should be well cool about the joke anyhow, cos they are not even the ones adressed?!
and all the other ones: activate irony sensors now.
  http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : May 31, 2013 12:41
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Speaking for my self, I am not angry at all.
I've only liked a couple of tracks of theirs anyway, so people like them can diss all they want, their opinion is of no importance to me.
I am just tired of listening to the same silly reasons, why psy-trance is shit/dead...etc. Even joking about it has become old...you can only hear a joke so many times and then its not funny anymore.
What I did find funny, was that it was LOUD who made this clip. The irony of that is through the roof!
And the comments on youtube about the music of that clip being great made me chuckle. 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Mathura
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
91
Posted : May 31, 2013 13:12
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Good topic...
Psytrance still is (and will be probably) an essential or maybe an "important" thing...
When all is filtered through, there are so many, many good peolpe at work and Psytrance-Music really hasn't become shit...
And yeah, please no censoring ! 
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
Posts :
1516
Posted : May 31, 2013 17:01
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Enjoyng like on loop for the 3000 time , where's the rest?
Tudo que é melhor e mais superior em mim saúda tudo que é melhor e mais alto em si |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : May 31, 2013 17:23
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Quote:
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On 2013-05-30 02:14, specymen wrote:
an economist tell that ONLY profit leads to innovation. it's not strange that an economist tell us that ONLY (lol) money is the solution.
just let me have a doubt 
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Sorry Specymen, but you are completely wrong. I can say, for sure, that an economist does not take MONEY as a benchmark. If you want to know, in simple words and generally, economy theory try to maximize the utilization of spares production factors. And money is not the only spare factor.
LOADING... |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : May 31, 2013 17:46
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On 2013-05-30 10:16, bukboy wrote:
SMS - profit is a reward for risking wisely. I.e. its temporary. The reason for this is that simply once other people see that the entrepreneur makes a profit, they mimic his technique and score the profit for themselves. When there are too many mimics, then they have to lower their price, until the cost of production is the same as the selling price and no more profit.
In government sanctioned monopolies what you get is government insiders getting a protected profit for providing artificially protected (from any competition) services, at artificially inflated prices. But irrelevant to topic.
In any case... in psy: (on the supply side)
1) music production is cheap (no music education, no required expensive studio...) (no barriers to entry for competitors) and fun.
2) masses of producers because of 1).
3) therefore price = price under perfect competition = cost of production = 0 profit = cost of small bedroom in 3rd world with computer and headphones, or even better subsidy from a second job.
on the demand side:
1) you can download psy for free. So the price is 0. (so not even the cost of the 3rd world bedroom)
As you can see, supply and demand is perfectly matched at 0 price = 0 profit. So psy is the genre for people who make music for fun and for free.
Consequently its not a genre for professionals (with anything but the most frugal standard of living) who make an income from psy. (maybe concerts)
So what is the solution?
1) prevent illegal downloading (yeah right)
This isn't so much of a problem for the big producers, because they make music for the masses which are do not shun money like hippies. LOL. So at least the moral suasion works to some degree.
2) Raise the barriers to entry?
a) The audience can do that partially. But who cares about quality music when you would rather pay for drugs.
b) Protect trade secrets? i.e. stop sharing production tips? But that's counter to the socialist ideal on isra.
Damn... looks like theres nothing to be done. The do gooders have devolved the scene into a bottom feeder hangout. Music that is barely passable, listened to by the economic bottom feeders of society (no offence intended).
But I have to be greatful y'all. You embraced me So thanks guys. Much appreciated. LOL
Sorry guys I'm doing the Carl Marx thing. Bitching and criticizing while giving no better solutions. Useless really.
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Hey bukboy, great arguments!
I canīt reply to any of your arguments, if we state the perfect competition as our market situation. Schumepeter and this "good monopoly" theory is based on the imperfect competition.
Schumpeter tries to explain the develop of economy, instead of his "circular flow" (wich is a economy grown leaded only by raising the population). If we live at perfetc competition, the long-termīs zero profit would not provide sufficient demand for develop. But itīs only another theory, that tries to explian the unexplainable. lol
Indeed our example is not an example for natural monopolies.
As for your suply/demand explanation, itīs really tight! And, imo, your solutions are really in Schumpeterīs thoughts. Specially about raising barries to new players, using mainly the patent process.
Great Marx comment. Although I guess itīs the standart for psy trance scene.
Sorry guys for this offtopic.
BACK ON TOPIC: Iīm with DH here. It would be a lot better and original to post is as "Why LOUDīs music....". I think that this could lead to a better and positive promotion than the actual title. The video is funny untill you hear Loudīs music. But I do like some LOUDīs music, and even some shit psytrance formula (specially the offbeat groove).
LOADING... |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : May 31, 2013 22:38
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SMS - glad you enjoyed that. I think that PSY is both a product of the culture which gave rise to it, and at the same time bound by it to never become more. There's no point in complaining about how shit psy is because psy is actually a highly social and inclusive sand box for people to learn how to polish boom boom and copy everyone else's minor technical evolutions, and not a fierce competitive dog eat dog battle field requiring brilliance and originality to prevail to fight another day.
Obviously its more like a day care center than a winner takes all spectacle.
Any other musical genre would have collapsed for lack of economic benefits, but not so the psy scene where social prestige is awarded for being the dj, and it is deemed payment enough by socially enlightened members.
Its nice that way.
Mind you there are some exceptions. Its just that I never hear them being played at parties, which are really too tedious to attend anymore. It reminds me of wine. the boutique guys with passion over-deliver on quality to make up for their lack of marketing. by seeking them out I buy up their product at arbitrage prices. However the moment they become famous they go on brand strength rather than need to stick out and quality drops. Quality is a transient thing which briefly sparkles out, colours the context then get swallowed up or becomes mimicked into the puke worthy new boring lack lustre lack of talent standard.
Its not sad. It just requires work to find the good stuff. And the people arent helpful.
check out ludwig von mises - human action if you would like the most concise, simple and complete explanation of every human motive. The dude is FTW. |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : May 31, 2013 23:55
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Wise words about psy scene social prestige. Good (or not so good) to know that this is not only a brazilianīs problem.
Maybe one thing Iīve always had in mind can help: I can say that most of best artistīs albuns in psy trance would be the debut album. Sounds like the artist is still seeking for sounds and style, while after that (and going to parties and see that formulatic music is "KILLER AT DANCEFLOOR") I fell that most of them lost the magic, flow. Few examples: Altom, Black and White, Psycraft, Alien Project, Sesto Sento, Protoculture...
And I check Ludwig Von Mises Institue from time to time. Thereīs also a brazilian portal for the institute. I really enjoy his thoughts about the freedom on economics.
LOADING... |
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specymen
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
119
Posted : Jun 1, 2013 01:11
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Quote:
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On 2013-05-31 17:23, SMS wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-05-30 02:14, specymen wrote:
an economist tell that ONLY profit leads to innovation. it's not strange that an economist tell us that ONLY (lol) money is the solution.
just let me have a doubt
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Sorry Specymen, but you are completely wrong. I can say, for sure, that an economist does not take MONEY as a benchmark. If you want to know, in simple words and generally, economy theory try to maximize the utilization of spares production factors. And money is not the only spare factor.
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ha ok so when you (him) tell that "where there is profits innovation starts"... you (him) don't speak about money ??
LOL very honnest discussion.
btw, let the economy rule the world. we can see how efficient is a world only leads by economic point of view. world isn't only a mental thing that can be rule by some fucking theory made by idiot persons far from what reality is.
what can your economist tell us about the magic of psychedelism ????
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jun 1, 2013 17:39
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[quote]
On 2013-06-01 01:11, specymen wrote:
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what can your economist tell us about the magic of psychedelism ????
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Well, your assuming that only hung-out bad beat people take psychedelics and attend to parties, with little or no academic education - and I can assure you there's a whole other side to that story.
I'm no economist, or politician, or manager, however I really don't believe I could run a country better than the people in the government.. of course, there's a whole bunch of ideals I could change, but really I don't have the slightest perception of the impact those ideals would have on the general population. Nevertheless, it pretty much impossible to satisfy the majority, and every single human, at every single instance, is doing what she thinks is the best reaction for a specific context (the only time someone does something wrong on purpose is when they think it's the right thing to do).
This goes for psy: just considering Dark, Fullon and Progressive sub genres, a Dark love typically thinks Full on is a cliche and extremely predictable, the Full on guy thinks dark has no structure or harmony, both think that Progressive just doesn't go anywhere and the Progressive guy (well I actually cant finish this though as I don't know what a Progressive lover guy thinks about the other genres..). Therefor, no one is happy, as they find faults in everything else.
My honest response to the first topic and the video: if you agree that psy is s#$%, either a) make what you think is better psy or b) listen to something else
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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specymen
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
119
Posted : Jun 2, 2013 01:30
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[quote]
On 2013-06-01 17:39, knocz wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-06-01 01:11, specymen wrote:
Quote:
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what can your economist tell us about the magic of psychedelism ????
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Well, your assuming that only hung-out bad beat people take psychedelics and attend to parties, with little or no academic education -
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ZZzzzz.....
yeah man see what you want in my words....good night
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Bipolar
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
78
Posts :
490
Posted : Jun 3, 2013 23:15
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Blasphemy!!! |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Jun 3, 2013 23:58
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Quote:
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On 2013-06-01 01:11, specymen wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-05-31 17:23, SMS wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-05-30 02:14, specymen wrote:
an economist tell that ONLY profit leads to innovation. it's not strange that an economist tell us that ONLY (lol) money is the solution.
just let me have a doubt
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Sorry Specymen, but you are completely wrong. I can say, for sure, that an economist does not take MONEY as a benchmark. If you want to know, in simple words and generally, economy theory try to maximize the utilization of spares production factors. And money is not the only spare factor.
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ha ok so when you (him) tell that "where there is profits innovation starts"... you (him) don't speak about money ??
LOL very honnest discussion.
btw, let the economy rule the world. we can see how efficient is a world only leads by economic point of view. world isn't only a mental thing that can be rule by some fucking theory made by idiot persons far from what reality is.
what can your economist tell us about the magic of psychedelism ????
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Let me try again with an example: profits can lead to inovation, wich can lead to better/news products. Better/new produtcs can be said as a welfare for consumers, even if no money will be earn by them. Again, economy is not about money. Much before money (as we know it @ paper money) exists, people already studied economy. But this is an endless discussion...
Letīs get back to the topic: good music is good music. Period. But I guess that at psy trance, thereīs maybe too many "types" of listeners. The overall party people, the djīs, the artists, the music geeks, the production geeks, the "PLUR people", etc.... How many times Iīve said: "Itīs a nice track, but the production is poor." And maybe thisīs one situation: even if I said that the track is nice, the negative argument is much stronger. And upcoming discussions would be around this topic.
LOADING... |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 4, 2013 17:38
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Only one type of people and music at parties. The kind who don't pay for the music and the kind of music no-one would want to pay for.
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