bukboy
Hyperboreans
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803
Posted : May 29, 2013 10:54
Colin why don't you promote some of those "Producers with 'vision and balls'"?
Give them some exposure?
cr1st0
IsraTrance Full Member
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80
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208
Posted : May 29, 2013 13:45
I said space tribe as a good reference, i know nobody is perfect...
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 29, 2013 19:06
Quote:
On 2013-05-29 06:02, Colin OOOD wrote:
And to the person who mentioned Space Tribe as an artist who wouldn't do anything in bad taste, don't forget that Olli Wisdom is also partly responsible for the abortion that was Alien Jesus.
I have seen Olli Wisdom perform twice now and both times it was THE cheesiest act at the event. my favorite was this song with a ludicrously long buildup to like 999 BPM, then a vocal that says...
"WHAT DO YOU SAY WHEN SOMEONE OFFERS YOU DRUGS?!?!"
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 29, 2013 21:02
I liked Oli Wisdoms music really much in the 90's. He was on Spirit Zone and I liked all releases from this legendary label but his were really special for me. Also saw him a few times too on some old VooVs but his music as lots of others has decreased in creativity and retarded today.
I personaly don't care if it's a pioneer or whoever, absolutely not. Even shamans can turn into charlatans (not meaning in any case Oli Wisdom here!)- just saying for everything.
Fuck the egos.
The music is boring and I have no interest to be anyhow arrogant, I feel honest. Sure there will be thousands who love it who found their ways to these partys and music & for them it is new, cool and heavy. Or some diehard fans. It's just my personal view about it collected out of the decades of intense passion for psytrance - there were times where music was really constantly developing and innovative, it was magic for the ears, like each tune is new and unique but these are over and I bet not only for me. There sure still are interesting creations though.
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : May 29, 2013 21:58
The title is off topic.
A fitting title would be "10 reasons why people confuse Beatport's "psy-trance" chart, with psy-trance."
or "10 reason's why LOUD's music has become shit"...since they put that stuff in their tunes and apparently they are making fun of them selves...
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Evolving Space
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6
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22
Posted : May 29, 2013 22:06
Quote:
or "10 reason's why LOUD's music has become shit"...since they put that stuff in their tunes and apparently they are making fun of them selves...
Yes!
I personally think Psytrance should not say something that came out of the Progressive genre
ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 29, 2013 22:41
Little trip by myself....
All this debate about the formulatic music from psy trance comes to a inovation issue imo. It´s been a problem that most of producers does not allow themselves to explore new sounds, new formulas.
Now my trip: during some studies, I´ve read a lot from a economist called Joseph Schumpeter. One of his points is that "monopoly/market power are necessary to develop the economy". His argument is that only where there´re profits that innovation starts. And it´s indeed a nice point of view.
Now looking at the present debate, I can see that psy trance is a non profitable market. So, from Schumepeterian theory, one way to create new products/sounds is to make the market profitable, allowing the "shit psytrance" to have more market power, thus providing profits (more market power allow the firm to reduce the product output and make the prices higher). This profitable scenario is the best situation, according to Schumpeter, to pushes the innovation back to the game.
Not really helpful... lol Only an economist view of present discussion.
LOADING...
specymen
Started Topics :
9
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119
Posted : May 29, 2013 23:34
lol
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 30, 2013 00:19
Quote:
On 2013-05-29 22:41, SMS wrote:
Little trip by myself....
All this debate about the formulatic music from psy trance comes to a inovation issue imo. It´s been a problem that most of producers does not allow themselves to explore new sounds, new formulas.
Now my trip: during some studies, I´ve read a lot from a economist called Joseph Schumpeter. One of his points is that "monopoly/market power are necessary to develop the economy". His argument is that only where there´re profits that innovation starts. And it´s indeed a nice point of view.
Now looking at the present debate, I can see that psy trance is a non profitable market. So, from Schumepeterian theory, one way to create new products/sounds is to make the market profitable, allowing the "shit psytrance" to have more market power, thus providing profits (more market power allow the firm to reduce the product output and make the prices higher). This profitable scenario is the best situation, according to Schumpeter, to pushes the innovation back to the game.
Not really helpful... lol Only an economist view of present discussion.
It does make sense to me.
It's only a matter of time (because it won't die) and this time is coming most probably nearer and innovation will appear and let psychedelic be the right term for this music again.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
specymen
Started Topics :
9
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119
Posted : May 30, 2013 02:14
an economist tell that ONLY profit leads to innovation. it's not strange that an economist tell us that ONLY (lol) money is the solution.
just let me have a doubt
bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : May 30, 2013 10:16
SMS - profit is a reward for risking wisely. I.e. its temporary. The reason for this is that simply once other people see that the entrepreneur makes a profit, they mimic his technique and score the profit for themselves. When there are too many mimics, then they have to lower their price, until the cost of production is the same as the selling price and no more profit.
In government sanctioned monopolies what you get is government insiders getting a protected profit for providing artificially protected (from any competition) services, at artificially inflated prices. But irrelevant to topic.
In any case... in psy: (on the supply side)
1) music production is cheap (no music education, no required expensive studio...) (no barriers to entry for competitors) and fun.
2) masses of producers because of 1).
3) therefore price = price under perfect competition = cost of production = 0 profit = cost of small bedroom in 3rd world with computer and headphones, or even better subsidy from a second job.
on the demand side:
1) you can download psy for free. So the price is 0. (so not even the cost of the 3rd world bedroom)
As you can see, supply and demand is perfectly matched at 0 price = 0 profit. So psy is the genre for people who make music for fun and for free.
Consequently its not a genre for professionals (with anything but the most frugal standard of living) who make an income from psy. (maybe concerts)
So what is the solution?
1) prevent illegal downloading (yeah right)
This isn't so much of a problem for the big producers, because they make music for the masses which are do not shun money like hippies. LOL. So at least the moral suasion works to some degree.
2) Raise the barriers to entry?
a) The audience can do that partially. But who cares about quality music when you would rather pay for drugs. b) Protect trade secrets? i.e. stop sharing production tips? But that's counter to the socialist ideal on isra.
Damn... looks like theres nothing to be done. The do gooders have devolved the scene into a bottom feeder hangout. Music that is barely passable, listened to by the economic bottom feeders of society (no offence intended).
But I have to be greatful y'all. You embraced me So thanks guys. Much appreciated. LOL
Sorry guys I'm doing the Carl Marx thing. Bitching and criticizing while giving no better solutions. Useless really.
Mathura
IsraTrance Junior Member
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16
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91
Posted : May 30, 2013 14:09
Maybe... all possible types of psytrance should find the way on the floor, into the world.
- Every state of mind and feeling looks for (and gets) reflections of an analogous state of music...
One important thing is that the peolpe have a good time, a good feeling, away from the disasters of the world management...
- Another important thing in Psytrance might be, that the deeper spirit of the music and the gatherings open the minds...
Psytrance is a source, joins a lot of things, for example "the free spiritual sphere with the possibility of the technical world"...
- And of course this sound will not arise easily and wont be produced easily with a mind,
which is interested in a "fast production" or very intersted in fame and top-earning money...
Spirit transfers... also into music... and the culture...
At this point, I am truly grateful for all thoose whom gave a big piece of peace and a lot of human development with their soulful music...
And also grateful for the soulful minded gathering organizers...
For fun:
bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
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809
Posted : May 30, 2013 16:26
Ok, challenge accepted to think this through the political-economic way like you did:
Quote:
On 2013-05-30 10:16, bukboy wrote:
In any case... in psy: (on the supply side)
1) music production is cheap (no music education, no required expensive studio...) (no barriers to entry for competitors) and fun.
2) masses of producers because of 1).
yes! Thus it is less 'elite' which makes the amount of potential talent bigger than when it was restricted by money (hardware synths for example). There is no reason to assume that the absolute amount of talent would be smaller due to the fact that the total amount of people who try grows.
Quote:
On 2013-05-30 10:16, bukboy wrote:
3) therefore price = price under perfect competition = cost of production = 0 profit = cost of small bedroom in 3rd world with computer and headphones, or even better subsidy from a second job.
yeah! that's great, don't you think?
Quote:
On 2013-05-30 10:16, bukboy wrote:on the demand side:
1) you can download psy for free. So the price is 0. (so not even the cost of the 3rd world bedroom)
As you can see, supply and demand is perfectly matched at 0 price = 0 profit. So psy is the genre for people who make music for fun and for free.
Consequently its not a genre for professionals (with anything but the most frugal standard of living) who make an income from psy. (maybe concerts)
If you are consistent in your perception, every genre of music is free (to download)and so every musicmaker does it for free or (let's hope) because (s)he likes it. So that's not an argument.
Quote:
On 2013-05-30 10:16, bukboy wrote:
So what is the solution?
b) Protect trade secrets? i.e. stop sharing production tips? But that's counter to the socialist ideal on isra.
