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Why is there less bass in Darkpsy than Fullon and Progressive?
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 16:50
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On 2007-10-19 14:54, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
We can see in the end who's list is bigger.. 
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God have we come to this? Are we supposed to measure our dicks now to determine what music is better produced?
Your argument is dumb because there are many more people producing normal trance (eg: Paul van Dyke, Yahel, Tiesto, ATP), full on (Almost 90% of all israeli) and progressive/minimal (Antix, SCS and too many to count with all the minimal trentmoller copycats lurking about) than people producing "psychedelic/non-mainstream" (I prefer to dark) trance. Everyone that I mentioned have great production and aside from the progressive minimal acts none really catch my attention. They aren't bad but they sometimes sound too polished and clean as Spindrift mentioned.
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On 2007-10-19 14:54, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
There is another thing which I don't understand. I read on some other topics stuff like "Dark psy is the real psychedelic music" or "melodic music is commercial" blah blah...
I remember in 1995-1996, I switch from Acid Techno production to "Goa" Trance production just because there was no feeling and no melody in techno. For more than 10 years the "goa" trance or "psy trance" artists (call them how you want), played music with melody and nobody said "this music is commercial" or "this music is not psychedelic" until now.
Did I missed something ??? What about all the old artists who created this scene, names like: Astral, California Sunshine, Oforia, Man With no Name, Transwave, Miranda...
They where all stupid because they made melodic music ??? I really don't get it !
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I will now disagree with you on one point. Even back in the day apart from Transwave most of the acts you mention were too melodic , too obvious and too cheesy for MY TASTES (very important). Especially Cali Sunshine and Miranda which is absolutely unlistenable with melodies which sound lifted from a new age cult videotape 
Goa trance back in the day that was considered psychedlic and twisted (pun intended) in my circle of friends was Slinky Wizard, Syb Unity Nettwerk, Cosmosis, Slide, Orichalcum + Deviant, Psychopod (koxbox) and the such. You should know if you've done your homework that they don't rely so much on simple chord progressions and obvious melodies to convey a real sense of otherworldlyness and IMO a real psychedelic experience.
  I don't use ideas. Every time I have an idea it's too limiting, and usually turns out to be a disappointment. But I haven't run out of curiosity. -RR |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 16:53
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 16:58
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PS: Most of you "darkpsy" haters I think are focussed to much on the bad elements and not enough on the good ones. I know which ones you are referring to, I just choose to not waste my energy bashing them and focus on the good stuff.
I mean again why is there at least 1 thread a week bashing underground psychedelic (ie dark)? I mean there is a bunch of music I don't like, and some I hate with a passion. I would prefer shoving pencils in my ears than listen to Dali for the rest of my life, or brushing my teeth with sulphiric acid than being subjected to anything off Utopia records
But guess what? Thank god for my teeth and ears I have a choice to simply walk away and move on...
Cheers
I don't use ideas. Every time I have an idea it's too limiting, and usually turns out to be a disappointment. But I haven't run out of curiosity. -RR |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 16:59
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On 2007-10-19 16:53, faxinadu wrote:
someone said quirk?
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+1 How can I forget quirk? Great stuff, don't get my started on an exhaustive list, I'm @ work ATM.
I don't use ideas. Every time I have an idea it's too limiting, and usually turns out to be a disappointment. But I haven't run out of curiosity. -RR |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 17:02
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On 2007-10-19 16:46, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
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On 2007-10-19 16:31, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2007-10-19 14:54, The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Please, if you wanna be respected please respect the others !
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Good idea...you should try it yourself sometime.
I never said that prog or full-on producers is bad.
I said that I many times find the production boring, even in cases when it's technically good.
If your post would have been about how you like the melodies in full-on that's a fair point, even if I in most cases would not agree one can't argue about taste.
But with stuff like;
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Everybody here is aware that most of the dark productions are very bad quality |
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and
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If a good produced "progressive" or "full on" album takes more than 1 year of work, a dark album wont take more than 1 month.
Here is the trick ! |
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and
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Lesson 1) Learn real music before you can explore some other frontiers !!!
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I really can't take you seriously when you talk about showing respect or when you claim that darkpsy fans/producers show a bad attitude towards full-on or prog.
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sorry bro, I don't wanna argue with you because you took my phrases out of the context!
As i told in the second post please leave the pride behind, but it seems you see only what you wanna see.
If you wanna talk about this, see also the posts before and the answers I got from you every time. Don't take from discution only what you like or not! I can do the same with your phrases.
I think you understood from the beginning my idea and my point of view so don't try to give other senses to my words.
And, if you understood it wrong from the beginning then for sure there is no subject to talk here.
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Taken out of context?
what are you talking about?
Your FIRST post in this thread on the FIRST page you clearly stated that "darkpsy-producers" neither have the skills to mix or have the time to finish a track properly and your content of that was that a darkpsy album don´t take more than a month to do.
How is that even close to "out of context" when your asking "dark lovers" to respect you when you clearly are pissing on them yourself
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 17:08
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 17:22
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Look Atma...all I'm trying to say is that also when it comes to production there is a matter of taste.
Maybe your definition of bad is different than what I pictured and you really only complaining about some IMO very rare cases where the production really is seriously flawed rather than raw and unpolished.
I just find it's a bit ironic that you preach respect when you where the one making claims that most dark producers are bad at production and don't know enough about music.
We all came into this scene from different backgrounds and different expectations.
When I was getting in to Goa it was from EBM and industrial stuff like Skinny Puppy, Front242, Split Second, etc.
Around that time they where all important influences for the sound in Goa and in my experience it's only in the mid 90's that many people started associating Goa with the more light and melodic music.
I think there is plenty of room for both..in fact there is a need for both for a good party.
I play full-on and even some prog when I play in the morning. I think there is about the same ratio of good full-on tracks as there are good darkpsy tracks.
As for my own music I often get labelled as dark...no idea why though since I think most of my tracks is quite melodic morning stuff.
So I for sure don't feel it's matter of personal pride for me to defend darkpsy more than other genres.
But I do feel that a lot of stuff is overproduced nowadays and I guess that's why I get engaged in this discussion.
Like I said, maybe I misunderstand what you mean when you say "bad" production, but I really don't hear too many darkpsy tracks where there is a major issue with clarity, separation and definition.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 18:16
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[quote]
On 2007-10-19 17:02, vegetal wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-19 16:46, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-19 16:31, Spindrift wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-19 14:54, The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Please, if you wanna be respected please respect the others !
[/quote]
Good idea...you should try it yourself sometime.
I never said that prog or full-on producers is bad.
I said that I many times find the production boring, even in cases when it's technically good.
If your post would have been about how you like the melodies in full-on that's a fair point, even if I in most cases would not agree one can't argue about taste.
But with stuff like;
[quote]
Everybody here is aware that most of the dark productions are very bad quality[/quote]
and
[quote]
If a good produced "progressive" or "full on" album takes more than 1 year of work, a dark album wont take more than 1 month.
Here is the trick ![/quote]
and
[quote]
Lesson 1) Learn real music before you can explore some other frontiers !!!
[/quote]
I really can't take you seriously when you talk about showing respect or when you claim that darkpsy fans/producers show a bad attitude towards full-on or prog.
[/quote]
sorry bro, I don't wanna argue with you because you took my phrases out of the context!
As i told in the second post please leave the pride behind, but it seems you see only what you wanna see.
If you wanna talk about this, see also the posts before and the answers I got from you every time. Don't take from discution only what you like or not! I can do the same with your phrases.
I think you understood from the beginning my idea and my point of view so don't try to give other senses to my words.
And, if you understood it wrong from the beginning then for sure there is no subject to talk here.
[/quote]
Taken out of context?
what are you talking about?
Your FIRST post in this thread on the FIRST page you clearly stated that "darkpsy-producers" neither have the skills to mix or have the time to finish a track properly and your content of that was that a darkpsy album don´t take more than a month to do.
How is that even close to "out of context" when your asking "dark lovers" to respect you when you clearly are pissing on them yourself
[/quote]
man, should i retype all i wroted again ?
This text you talk about was taken from my 3'rd post not from the first one, after the army of darkness started to throw shit on me and make comparations about my music and Europe !
Maybe you should read again what I wroted in the first one !
I said that most of the dark psy sounds bad as "quality" and the production of "full on" or progressive takes much more time..
All of you here agreed that full on and progressive is "overproduced" and this means the sound quality it's much better and it also takes more time to get it!
Well, you don't like overproduced sound, I like overproduced sound !
I didn't tried to hurt anybody, I just said my opinion, but it seams the pride of some of you here were too strong to accept this!
I have the right to have, and to sustain my opinion ! What's wrong with that ? And from where all this anger ? I can say same thing about your attitude and the way you responded to my posts !
And about this:
quote]
Lesson 1) Learn real music before you can explore some other frontiers !!!
[/quote]
Every music composer from any music style and any music teacher will tell you this.
Before you can explore some other frontiers of the music creation you must now everything first about the frontiers we already know. This rule is not applied only in music but in every other domain.
If you didn't liked the way i said it, I apollogize for this!
If there is something else you don't understand please tell me. I will repeat again !
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 18:46
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I think what we have here is people who can't seperate bad production from cliche production.
So-called darkpsy is a very large Ice-berg and due to it's esoteric nature has a lot of artists producing it who are at this stage in the undergound scene. It's a relatively new sound, so at this stage there's still a lot of learning to be done. I'm one of these people at this stage, but you wouldn't have heard of me because my best friend doesn't own a record label.
But one thing about this music is it's extremely inspiring, as it sounds quite different to a lot of contemporary dance music so when people hear it (and like what they hear) the technology is there to do it, pretty much for free if they own a computer. This is no bad thing, if an individual desires they can keep at it and carry on to improve there sound over a period of 5-10 years or so. So I believe in the future you will have a larger quantity of well produced, dark artists, but right now I'm not complaining, due to releases like the newer parvati, zaikadelic and auraquake compilations to hint a few
On the other hand there's a selection of artists that think producing is alike to drawing a circle on a piece of paper, where if it's not perfectly round, then you have done a bad job. Thse artists adhere to a set of parameters which they have laid in their minds, like what a kick should sound like, how much rumble you put in your bass, where to hi-pass, where to low-pass, how much to cut at 300hz etc. The truth is, it's not this way. All you are doing here is making music for DJ's who are not very good at choosing which record to play next and can't use EQ's properly. What this also does is get listeners used to certain levels in the music they listen to, which leads people to asking questions like"why is there less bass in darkpsy...".
The real question should be "how comes that.. like... even though full-on producers are really good... they make all their basslines sound the same?"
It's all good anyways 
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 19:03
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On 2007-10-19 18:16, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
Every music composer from any music style and any music teacher will tell you this.
Before you can explore some other frontiers of the music creation you must know everything first about the frontiers we already know. This rule is not applied only in music but in every other domain.
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If everyone applied too this statement, no one would ever make music. They would just spend their whole life trying to learn everything and then die someday. To know everything we know about muisc theory and sound production in a lifetime, is just not possible.
I think what you should of said was "you should at least learn the basics of every aspect you use, enough to build on them in a confident manner". |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 19:29
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I didn't read the thread but there is plenty of bass in KoxBox - Lunar Bin. But that probably doesn't qualify as dark psy these days... Still, it's a great track. I wish there was more stuff like that.
UnderTow |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 19:39
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[quote]
On 2007-10-17 23:24, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
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Lesson 1) Learn real music before you can explore some other frontiers !!!
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Real music? 
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 19:55
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Yeah - not pseudo noisy noises that are just called music, like psytrance u know
Signature |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 20:02
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On 2007-10-19 18:16, The_Guardians_Of_Truth
man, should i retype all i wroted again ?
This text you talk about was taken from my 3'rd post not from the first one
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No need mate , since im doing my laundry atm i have alot of time to kill so what i did was to do some screenshots, they are taken from the first page of this thread.
So lets go through them step by step shall we
1st picture:
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/files/1st.JPG
No fecal tossing or comparisons regarding Europe = (full-on or atma)
2nd picture:
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/files/2nd.JPG
Still nothing of the above
3rd picture
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/files/3rd.JPG
No fecal matters yet but your first post in the thread has surfaced atma where you said..... well i think the picture says it all
Maybe the moderators erased your first posts i don´t know, if so then please tell me =)
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after the army of darkness started to throw shit on me and make comparations about my music and Europe !
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Talking about taking words out of their context and misunderstanding the point.
I guess your referring to this:
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| Anyway...it's good and bad in all genres but hearing Atma complain that most dark producers is bad is a bit like hearing Europe complaining about the production values on Napalm Death's releases. |
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As i read it its nothing more than an analogy, i can´t really see where he is saying that Atmas music is comparable to Europe
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I said that most of the dark psy sounds bad as "quality" and the production of "full on" or progressive takes much more time..
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Exactly and you said in the earlier post that the exact statement was taken out of its context, please decide how you want it now!
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All of you here agreed that full on and progressive is "overproduced" and this means the sound quality it's much better and it also takes more time to get it!
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First of all i didn´t agree to that statement. I think you need to stop generalizing
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Well, you don't like overproduced sound, I like overproduced sound !
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Now your just talking about things that you have NO clue about. If i like the music itself i don´t care if its "overproduced".
If its good then its good, period!
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I didn't tried to hurt anybody, I just said my opinion, but it seams the pride of some of you here were too strong to accept this!
I have the right to have, and to sustain my opinion ! What's wrong with that ?
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Nothing wrong about having an opinion, but i think that you need to choose your words if you want to avoid situations like this.
And perhaps avoid to generalize and taking a piss on a whole genre.
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And from where all this anger ? I can say same thing about your attitude and the way you responded to my posts !
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What! where did i put on an attitude and responded rude to you, hey i even gave you a beer last night!
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If there is something else you don't understand please tell me. I will repeat again !
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No need to repeat but maybe clarify would be better in this case.
And yes there is alot of low quality music out there i agree with you on that one ATMA but i wouldn´t even dare to claim that its genre-based ( lets not discuss the term "quality" now).
One more thing, i don´t consider my music "Dark" even though some people tend to call it that,my music is very melodic even thou its not written in Dur.
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Oct 19, 2007 20:09
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On 2007-10-19 19:03, soulfood wrote:
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On 2007-10-19 18:16, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
Every music composer from any music style and any music teacher will tell you this.
Before you can explore some other frontiers of the music creation you must know everything first about the frontiers we already know. This rule is not applied only in music but in every other domain.
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If everyone applied too this statement, no one would ever make music. They would just spend their whole life trying to learn everything and then die someday. To know everything we know about muisc theory and sound production in a lifetime, is just not possible.
I think what you should of said was "you should at least learn the basics of every aspect you use, enough to build on them in a confident manner".
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Exactly my thought, here comes another analogy: Like driving a car, what you need is to study for your drivers-license and practise alot behind the wheel, you don´t need to understand how the engine or the electric system is working to operate your car.
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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