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Why is there less bass in Darkpsy than Fullon and Progressive?
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 11:30
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On 2007-10-17 10:49, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
To make a kick with lots of low freq and a bassline to sound together, and the track to have a flow, it is one of the hardest part in the process of music creation (i talk about psy genres here).
Well most of the dark producers don't have the skills to do that and also they don't have time to process or finish properly a track because they must finish 1 trackday!
Sometimes it is easy to choose creativity and forget about the quality and professionalism, but of course, this idea it will always be accepted only by the amateurs.
If a good produced "progressive" or "full on" album takes more than 1 year of work, a dark album wont take more than 1 month. 
Here is the trick !
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woah where did you get this 1month/1year relation? or this track a day thing?
what you are describing is a gauge between good and bad producers, regardless of genre...
 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 12:29
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There is good producers that don't need to work for ages on a track to make it sound good, that's just a imbecile argument.
I could make a long list of extremely successful producers for all sorts of genres from trance, techno, rock and pop that make brilliant sounding tracks in a a day or two.
An experienced producer that would have to spend a year on an album to make the production sound good would be an extreme exception rather than a rule.
I agree that not all darkpsy have the highest production standards, but a lot of it is too polished to my likings.
Most of the progressive and full-on on is completely produced to death and makes my ears fall asleep after a couple of tracks because there is nothing to grab my attention in a completely coherent and balanced mix.
Anyway...it's good and bad in all genres but hearing Atma complain that most dark producers is bad is a bit like hearing Europe complaining about the production values on Napalm Death's releases.
Polished production is not actually something that is desirable in all genres.
Technically it is harder to make as full sounding bass at higher tempos. Both with kick and bass you get a much fuller impression if the sound have time to play out, even if the actual frequency content might be the same.
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 13:15
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agree^^
one more thing about fast tracker
i used to have loudspeaker , then it took me about 3-4 days to adjust eq's and never got good result.
then i bought tannoy monitors , and viola , in 2 days i finish eq a track , and it sound good 
now i have the bm6a and i can finish eq track in a day , and sound better x10 then anything done before 
the right equipment is time saver , and with expirience , the eq part get to be the fastest and most easy part in my production.
i wish more producers spend as much time they do on eq , in actualy writing better melodies and have better story rather then crapy over polished bass www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 18:59
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
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379
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 19:58
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Just because I hurt the pride of the dark producers here this doesn't change the facts !
Everybody here is aware that most of the dark productions are very bad quality, and i am not talking about the "idea" of the tracks but the sound quality.
There in not such big difference between the tempo of the "Full on" and "dark psy" so i think that this story with kick and bass don't have enough space, blah blah... doesn't stand. But the lack of skills does !
This is not a topic about everybody's tastes so please don't act childish, leave the pride behind and be realistic !
This was a strictly technical question here and same is the answer !
What i like, or what you like it doesn't matter... there are plenty of other topics about this !
One more thing...
When I talk about dark producers I'm not talking about exceptions here but in general.
There are of course, some good artists from the dark side of psy, which i really like, and I like their sound quality & production aswell (artists like: Phatmatix, Penta, Spectral Skunk, Azax, Digital Talk, Abomination, Painkiller, Toxic, and many more...)
But this don't change the fact that "most" of the other artists sound very bad.
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
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28
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593
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 20:41
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On 2007-10-17 19:58, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
Just because I hurt the pride of the dark producers here this doesn't change the facts !
Everybody here is aware that most of the dark productions are very bad quality, and i am not talking about the "idea" of the tracks but the sound quality.
There in not such big difference between the tempo of the "Full on" and "dark psy" so i think that this story with kick and bass don't have enough space, blah blah... doesn't stand. But the lack of skills does !
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I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I bet for every "bad" darkpsy producer you refer to I can name one equally "bad" full-on and "boring" progressive artist. You need to stop making sweeping generalisations and dictating what is and is not good production.
I suggest you go listen to some Ghreg on Earth and Penta, and having listened to your music, I would think you can learn a thing or two yourself 
Cheers
I don't use ideas. Every time I have an idea it's too limiting, and usually turns out to be a disappointment. But I haven't run out of curiosity. -RR |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 20:47
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I'm not specifically meaning that most prog or full-on simply lacks good ideas and relies on production instead.
Just as much dark lack good ideas IMO, and many times I can hear prog or full-on tracks where I think that there is some very good content but the overall impression is very dull due to overproduced sound.
I wouldn't call it bad production just because it doesn't appeal to me, but it seems that Atma is failing to realise that production values is a matter of taste.
With the exception of penta your list of what you consider good dark producers is all in my ears overproduced and i find them boring.
I need a level that is to high or too low at times, some masking and phasing issues or leads clashing a bit with the bass and kick to keep my ears awake.
So what's perfect production for you is not necessarily good for everyone else.
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Oct 17, 2007 21:01
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On 2007-10-17 20:41, neuromantik wrote:
I suggest you go listen to some Ghreg on Earth and Penta, and having listened to your music, I would think you can learn a thing or two yourself
Cheers
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+1
though almost anyone can learn a think or two from ghreg
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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485
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 21:21
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On 2007-10-17 20:41, neuromantik wrote:
I suggest you go listen to some Ghreg on Earth and Penta, and having listened to your music, I would think you can learn a thing or two yourself
Cheers
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So ? whats your point.
there is not doubt here that most dark psy is not dark but simply rubbish.. that's a matter of taste for sure. But then there is good taste and bad taste.
there is a lot of rubish in full on too, but it tend to be less cacophonic than most "dark psy"
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
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549
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 22:05
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
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On 2007-10-17 20:41, neuromantik wrote:
I suggest you go listen to some Ghreg on Earth and Penta, and having listened to your music, I would think you can learn a thing or two yourself
Cheers
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So ? whats your point. |
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I believe that the point is that we can learn a lot from those producers since they have extremely interesting and unusually high quality production skills in the "dark psy" field.
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
there is not doubt here that most dark psy is not dark but simply rubbish.. that's a matter of taste for sure. But then there is good taste and bad taste. |
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Oh really? And how do you define good and bad musical taste except in comparison to your own ; which would be utterly subjective and therefor inappropriate to base any definition upon it?
Is there even a tiniest clue about how and where exactly should we draw a border line between good and bad musical (or any other) taste?
Assuming that there will be no meaningful answer to my question let me remind you that the beauty IS in the eye of the beholder!
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
there is a lot of rubish in full on too, but it tend to be less cacophonic than most "dark psy" |
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Now here I don't see any point. Can you please elaborate and explain why is that difference important in any way? I assume that by cacophonic you ware thinking about non-chromatic and dissonant sounds.
Although I usually don't make such music I've tried more than once to make it... If you're making it from scratch (not using sample libraries or presets) it is much harder than making chromatic tunes. Almost anyone with a grain of musical hearing will compose a simple tune with 12 tone keyboard. But to compose anything on a "fretless" 20 to 20000 Hz scale using 2 decimal places... it's quite challenging.
Now I don't know how dissonant dark psy is done, nor I'm suggesting that it's more complicated or more valuable than any other form of music.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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282
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3394
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 22:30
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"If you're making it from scratch (not using sample libraries or presets) it is much harder than making chromatic tunes. Almost anyone with a grain of musical hearing will compose a simple tune with 12 tone keyboard. But to compose anything on a "fretless" 20 to 20000 Hz scale using 2 decimal places... it's quite challenging. "
word!
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
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485
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 22:58
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-17 22:05, shamantrixx wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-10-17 20:41, neuromantik wrote:
I suggest you go listen to some Ghreg on Earth and Penta, and having listened to your music, I would think you can learn a thing or two yourself
Cheers
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So ? whats your point. |
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I believe that the point is that we can learn a lot from those producers since they have extremely interesting and unusually high quality production skills in the "dark psy" field.
Quote:
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
there is not doubt here that most dark psy is not dark but simply rubbish.. that's a matter of taste for sure. But then there is good taste and bad taste. |
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Oh really? And how do you define good and bad musical taste except in comparison to your own ; which would be utterly subjective and therefor inappropriate to base any definition upon it?
Is there even a tiniest clue about how and where exactly should we draw a border line between good and bad musical (or any other) taste?
Assuming that there will be no meaningful answer to my question let me remind you that the beauty IS in the eye of the beholder!
Quote:
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On 2007-10-17 21:21, Seppa wrote:
there is a lot of rubish in full on too, but it tend to be less cacophonic than most "dark psy" |
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Now here I don't see any point. Can you please elaborate and explain why is that difference important in any way? I assume that by cacophonic you ware thinking about non-chromatic and dissonant sounds.
Although I usually don't make such music I've tried more than once to make it... If you're making it from scratch (not using sample libraries or presets) it is much harder than making chromatic tunes. Almost anyone with a grain of musical hearing will compose a simple tune with 12 tone keyboard. But to compose anything on a "fretless" 20 to 20000 Hz scale using 2 decimal places... it's quite challenging.
Now I don't know how dissonant dark psy is done, nor I'm suggesting that it's more complicated or more valuable than any other form of music.
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lol ! here we go again....
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| I believe that the point is that we can learn a lot from those producers since they have extremely interesting and unusually high quality production skills in the "dark psy" field.
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Sham I understood what he said, no need for translation.
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| And how do you define good and bad musical taste except in comparison to your own ; which would be utterly subjective and therefor inappropriate to base any definition upon it?
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What definition? What the hell are you talking about? I still have the right to have an opinion, isn'it ? whether its subjective of not is not too relevant since its just my opinion nothing more. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
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875
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 23:11
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On 2007-10-15 15:14, Djones wrote:
I wonder, why is it that usually most Darkpsy music has less bass in the kicks than Fullon or Progressive Trance?
Is it because that's just the way it is and people prefer not to change it?
Or are they all convinced, that a less basier kick sounds better in Darkpsy?
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this isn't a statement true to all darkpsy as some of it is very similar to full-on in terms off kicks and basslines.
More often I hear less top end in a kick which lets more sounds breathe over the top without the obstruction.
Also I see many people spacing out to dark psy, in comparison to the groovier progressive, or the stomping full-on stuff, as people are getting less of a push from the music and just letting it get in there heads and swirl it all around.
It's all good |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 23:19
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
Oscar Wilde
Not having an opinion is an act of wisdom. However we all have opinions about everything and we have almost nothing to say about why we have them. And here I go again I guess
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Oct 17, 2007 23:24
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[quote]
On 2007-10-17 22:30, faxinadu wrote:
"If you're making it from scratch (not using sample libraries or presets) it is much harder than making chromatic tunes. Almost anyone with a grain of musical hearing will compose a simple tune with 12 tone keyboard. But to compose anything on a "fretless" 20 to 20000 Hz scale using 2 decimal places... it's quite challenging. "
word!
[/quote]
Come on guys ! Let's get back on earth and stop dreaming !
You guys talk about the music like you are some musical genius.
Lesson 1) Learn real music before you can explore some other frontiers !!!
It's true, maybe I have some things to learn from artists like Greg on Earth; but maybe it's also true that he can come in my music class where I teach so maybe he will learn something from me too. But of course, this is up to me or up to him, it's not you who decide who knows more or less !
Don't try to make stupid all the other producers here just because they use 12 notes! You are not the first in history that don't follow the musical rules and for sure you won't create any revolution in music.
There are some guys, including me here with lot of experience and a long musical background, and i am not talking only about psy trance. So please, don't try to look smart, not everybody is a new comer or amateur here!
We can talk about anything here when it comes to music, but i am sick to see this "superiority" of the dark producers who think, they know everything about music.
Lesson 2: Less talk, more work !
I am out of this endless discution !
Good luck 1
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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