| Author
|
Why is there less bass in Darkpsy than Fullon and Progressive?
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:14
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:11, Spindrift wrote:
you really think a bit too highly of you own opinion.
|
|
It isn't just my opinion. Stop ignoring the data. 
Anyway, time to notice that I'm not wasting my time on this any more. I'm just having fun with you... 
UnderTow |
|
|
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:25
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:14, UnderTow wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:11, Spindrift wrote:
you really think a bit too highly of you own opinion.
|
|
It isn't just my opinion. Stop ignoring the data.
Anyway, time to notice that I'm not wasting my time on this any more. I'm just having fun with you...
UnderTow
|
|
Your running out of arguments or what?
Kinda lame way to try to end a discussion
 Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:28
|
No worries...I noticed some time ago that you stopped responding to any serious questions I had about your reasoning.
But hey...it's always amusing when someone tries to spoil a serious discussion with some irrelevant quotes and other bullshit.
And it sure is less of a waste of time than actually explaining what you mean if someone questions what you say.
I wonder if an ignore function is part of the new upgrades for this forum...it sure would come in handy sometimes.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:33
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:25, vegetal wrote:
Your running out of arguments or what?
Kinda lame way to try to end a discussion
|
|
All the arguments have been given. There is no need to repeat them.
UnderTow |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:37
|
Yeah...come on vegetal...he already said that if you take away taste from the equation is not a matter of taste any more.
The cold hard facts have been presented and who can argue with undertows opinion on what is objective reality or not.
LOL
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:48
|
So what was the premise? You can't make a defined bassline at 150 BPM because of envelope speeds? Well here you go: http://www.puretone.nl/Loki-Bla.mp3
(Obviously more work would be needed for release quality).
UnderTow |
|
|
|
shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 21:53
|
What argument can one possibly have while trying to defend the illusion about objectivity of human perception. We know ONLY by CONTRAST and we will NEVER be able to have objective perception. Besides that.... objective perception is not a perception... it's a mirror image without recognitions, understanding, emotions, associations and attitudes.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
|
|
|
Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 22:11
|
Quote:
|
Your argument is like people 50 years ago saying that women couldn't be managers or couldn't be top politicians simply because there were no women in these positions.
|
|
No it isn't. That was largely a result of societal structures working against women which is an entirely different matter and strange analogy if you ask me. I think you wanted to refer to logical induction though but you didn't understand my point:
IF the style of music has nothing to do with the production quality (as you suggest) then don't you find it UNLIKELY that there isn't a single good darkpsy one? That's all that was. And there is by the way nothing circular about that reasoning.
Quote:
|
There could be some some very skilled producers that don't care or bother (because the audience doesn't care maybe). Maybe they do audiophile recordings of jazz quartets in their free time. Who knows. Or maybe they are indeed less skilled. Why is that impossible?
|
|
Not impossible. Just not very plausible.
Quote:
|
This sentence doesn't make sense. You say it is lower yet it is not lower.
|
|
Yes it does, if you understand the difference between relative and absolute. This is even to accomodate your line of thought as I don't think absolute production standards exist.
Quote:
|
Only if you can't separate the two.
|
|
And you can? Good for you. Now get off your high horses.
Btw, if we could separate the observer from ourselves we'd know what reality is. You can't win an argument/discussion with a hypothetical statement!
Quote:
|
Listening by it's very nature is not objective, so objective listening is a bit of an oxymoron.
For something to be objective it has to be measurable.
|
|
Indeed it is so. Along with being repeatable one of the very basic scientific criteria for anything to be considered objective.
Quote:
|
is good production is measureable ? i think yes
maybe not in mathematical parameters (tho there are many of those)
but simple "better or worse" compare 2 songs , 90% of the peaple will agree on specific one that is better.
Bingo!
|
|
Bango? You've got to be kiddin. I guess a billion chinese people can't be wrong either. Let's see if we can find 'better' and 'worse' among the scientifically established units of measurement shall we? Give me a break...
Quote:
|
You guys seriously need to work on understanding what subject, subjective, object and objective actually means.
Something that cannot be measured and relies on the subject for putting a value on it can not be called objective.
|
|
Amen! |
|
|
|
Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 22:28
|
Quote:
|
What argument can one possibly have while trying to defend the illusion about objectivity of human perception. We know ONLY by CONTRAST and we will NEVER be able to have objective perception. Besides that.... objective perception is not a perception... it's a mirror image without recognitions, understanding, emotions, associations and attitudes.
|
|
Actually this is the perfect ending to this discussion because those of you who think that you can argue against this statement merely expose that you don't understand it.
Cheers for that... or should I say BINGO  |
|
|
|
Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 23:35
|
I think a lot of people here have poor criterias. We can spend all year talking about what's good and what's not, but in the end those that have a trained ear will almost always agree on the quality of a sound whatever the style.
I think there is some very good dark although its extremely rare. So style here is not the issue. Nor the speed or the cycle of whatever... ?
But skills, or taste, are the real issues.
this was my bit
|
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 00:23
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:48, UnderTow wrote:
So what was the premise? You can't make a defined bassline at 150 BPM because of envelope speeds? Well here you go: http://www.puretone.nl/Loki-Bla.mp3
(Obviously more work would be needed for release quality).
UnderTow
|
|
I never said you cannot make a defined bass at 150 BPM.
But you don't get the same fullness without some extra work.
You sample sounds fine to me, but the bass doesn't sound very full or deep, which is what I think OP is experiencing when he talks about the lack of bass in darkpsy.
Quote:
|
Seppa wrote:
We can spend all year talking about what's good and what's not, but in the end those that have a trained ear will almost always agree on the quality of a sound whatever the style.
|
|
To me there is not a lot of darkpsy that I would say have bad production, certainly not "most darkpsy".
Others is arguing the opposite, but you are trying to say that everyone agrees?
This kind of discussion is not something that is exclusive to darkpsy vs. full-on. I heard people with trained ears calling most production in a certain genre bad before...but still the bands, producers and the audience appreciate it, so obviously it's a matter of taste.
To claim anything else just seem really arrogant to me.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 00:55
|
whatever the taste of a producer, or the feeling of a piece, whether its low-fi or high fi, its is possible to keep the original feeling while maintaining top notch standards.
You can make any type of sound whether it's a bass with very little low end that might sound just genius or a lead that is so dirty that should feel like it 's annoying or unpleasant , but in fact it is not ect..
This is all down to the skills of the producer.
Quote:
| I never said you cannot make a defined bass at 150 BPM.
But you don't get the same fullness without some extra work.
You sample sounds fine to me, but the bass doesn't sound very full or deep, which is what I think OP is experiencing when he talks about the lack of bass in darkpsy. |
|
I don't hear a lack of bass. his bass sound just a thousand time better than any similar dark piece who often happen to have the exact same really basic type of bass . There we are... skills !
its all about skills, I don't see how a producer would in purpose make a bass with the same characteritics but that is not as pleasant to the ear as loki's.
|
|
|
|
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 01:59
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 16:16, Side-A wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 15:36, Jerry wrote:
Just because something takes less time to produce doesn't mean it is therefore crap by default.
If i cook a new type of dish that takes 2 hours to cook it doesn't taste better by default than just throwing a pizza in the oven either.
|
|
yeah but it's easier to cook a pizza then a well prepared and refined meal
|
|
I love Pizza |
|
|
|
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 02:04
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:33, UnderTow wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-10-22 21:25, vegetal wrote:
Your running out of arguments or what?
Kinda lame way to try to end a discussion
|
|
All the arguments have been given. There is no need to repeat them.
UnderTow
|
|
I think it's very shallow and evident of the majorities lack of knowledge of "darkpsy" that bad production was the only answer to the original question, that was discussed in depth. |
|
|
|
Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 02:36
|
Interesting thread
This whole bass thing @ faster tempos. Are we all talking about bass as in instrumentation or bass as in spectral balance with in the mix? Anyway just assume you use the same kick for 2 different tracks. 1@140bpm and 1@150bpm. At 140 there will be more room for longer bass notes. Does this mean you get more bass? Well if you tuned the envelope of the bass so it came right up to the kick at both tempos you would have no space left (were using a 16th drone in this example with no note on kicks). So it then boils down to the gap between the end of the kick and the next bass note. At a lower tempo you will get a bigger gap than at 150bpm (this presumes that the kick sample is less than a 16th note in length at 140bpm). With this example there is more bass energy present over a given period at 150bpm. You can compensate for this by having a longer kick drum tail. Then you are equal again. So you can have more of less or less with more.
So how comes some people here claim to hear less bass on dark psy? Mix balance? I have learned that you can approach the mix balance from either end. Bass light? is there too much high instrumentation? Or maybe added too much air? Or just the levels of the high instrumentation need bringing down. Another possibility could be the size of gap between notes. Too smaller gap and the attack transient of the next note may have less impact. The gap will have to be over a certain length to hear the decay of the note properly, the next transient will sound (relative to the gap) more punchy. This can also be perceived as more bass.
Then theres the whole compression and EQ variables and of course the monitors and room acoustics.
I'm not too interested in this sub-sub-sub-sub genre thing. I believe you can learn something with every piece of music you listen to.The bigger the contrast the more you can learn.
OK definition time, if someone can help me I would be grateful. Trance music for me is very much about 16ths. Alpha waves- mediation trance dance thing. 8-12 Hz apparently which translate to 120-180bpm. Quite a gap!! For me its got to be over 140 on the dancefloor. I bean to a few Synergy Project parties here in London recently and they play some psy breaks stuff at the beginning and it is just too slow for me to get into and have the experience I am after. Im OK at 155 as well. So im guess Im quite lucky. But can someone define Psychedelic for me please.
Oh and why isn't my countries fucking flag on here? What kinda racist crap is that?
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
|
|
|
