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Why is there less bass in Darkpsy than Fullon and Progressive?
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
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3097
Posted : Oct 21, 2007 21:27
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On 2007-10-17 08:14, subconsciousmind wrote:
I don't agree ... its not generally that darkpsy hass less bass.
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I dont agree at all .. (Never heard of it - Its a jook ?) Cant find any connection , Its all about the creator of the track , I think allways can find the fine/good balance for having the right sound for an horror darkish deep bass & sound , Kik and bass can run (And must) together on an darkness tracks for sure ! . Who say not ? |
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Seppa
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485
Posted : Oct 21, 2007 22:16
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The only arguments that I hear from the people that beleive dark psy is well produced are:
the full on is overproduced, the dark is too fast to be produced to the standard of the full on.
In other words you agree even if you don't admit it that the standard of dark psy is low.
And what is overproduced anyway. Sounds to me like not that well produced music. If its well produced sound wise than its well produced. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Oct 21, 2007 22:22
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maybe dark psy dont have a so good production cause they cant release a artist with crystal clear sound ,it ll make all the other tracks of the va sound like crap (joking  ) |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
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128
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2899
Posted : Oct 21, 2007 22:28
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bla bla bla  |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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875
Posted : Oct 21, 2007 23:48
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On 2007-10-21 04:06, Spindrift wrote:
I'm quite certain it's not...I think it's 12/8...was a long time since I heard it and I have to listen again but judging by the way I remember dancing to it I'm very confident it's not 4/4.
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It's 4/4. The reason you remember dancing to it like that is because it's in triplets.
1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a... 1, 2, 3, 4.
Anyways off topic...
Seriously every time all this darkpsy is crap stuff comes up, it reminds me of jocks bullying the goth kids in school. It's safety in numbers.
I think people don't really know what bad production is. Certainly the dark releases I purchase are well produced, however compared to something like Astrix and Oforia, it's not gonna sound that great... but then again they are pretty shit so... I guess it balances out. The nicest track in terms of production I heard lately was by Mubali and some other guy on the "No time no space" compilation released on Parvati. Sweet as a nut I tell you! No lack of bass there. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 00:05
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On 2007-10-21 18:22, UnderTow wrote:
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On 2007-10-21 17:06, Inner Demon wrote:
Production quality is not measured along some universal scale.
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Why not? If you separate taste from the equation, it is quite easy.
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As long as we exclude taste from the equation it's no longer a matter of taste...I think I can agree with that
The problem is that the discussion is about something that obviously is to a certain extent a matter of taste.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what your saying seems to me akin to something like "If we don't consider individual taste everyone can agree that the style I like is the best".
That would be a pretty stupid and arrogant claim and I assume that you simply don't realize that production values to a certain extent is a matter of taste.
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Seppa wrote:
The only arguments that I hear from the people that beleive dark psy is well produced are:
the full on is overproduced, the dark is too fast to be produced to the standard of the full on.
In other words you agree even if you don't admit it that the standard of dark psy is low.
And what is overproduced anyway. Sounds to me like not that well produced music. If its well produced sound wise than its well produced.
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Who is this people you speak about?
I never said that "dark is to fast to be produced to the standard of full-on".
With regards to the original question why dark might be perceived as having less bass it's just because fact that when the note is under a certain length the impression of bass gets quite different.
It's not too hard to compensate for that and there is certainly many darkpsy tracks with very fat bass, but it is certainly easier to make a full sounding bass if you have a classic 8th or "ompa-ompa" bass for a prog track than a 16th bass for a 150 bpm darkpsy track.
Some people think much full-on is overproduced, some think the same tracks is perfectly produced, so it's not as simple as saying well-produced is well-produced.
If it's good or bad is in the ears of the listener...I would prefer to say that I don't like it instead of saying it's bad production.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 00:12
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On 2007-10-21 23:48, soulfood wrote:
It's 4/4. The reason you remember dancing to it like that is because it's in triplets.
1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a... 1, 2, 3, 4.
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4/4 triplets and 12/8 can be quite similar...I don't have it around to check it but I can pretty much guarantee you that it's 12/8.
Regardless the point is that the notes does not appear as densely as if you have a 150 bmp track not in triplets or 12/8 so it's a bad example to compare with.
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 01:26
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On 2007-10-22 00:12, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2007-10-21 23:48, soulfood wrote:
It's 4/4. The reason you remember dancing to it like that is because it's in triplets.
1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a... 1, 2, 3, 4.
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4/4 triplets and 12/8 can be quite similar...I don't have it around to check it but I can pretty much guarantee you that it's 12/8.
Regardless the point is that the notes does not appear as densely as if you have a 150 bmp track not in triplets or 12/8 so it's a bad example to compare with.
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True that, either way This thread has lost the plot. What I can sum up from what I have read is full-on and progressive is overproduced, cheesey shit that only morons appreciate and "darkpsy" is tastless and badly produced and appreciated only by delinquents under the age of 17 who wear there grandmothers bras and smear feacal matter upon their person.
Darkpsy is good... some of it is amateurish and is still good.
Full-on is good, however some of it is shit, no matter how well produced.
Seriously though some fullon is so crisp that it hurts my ears on large systems compared to some more blunt sounding underground psytrance.
BTW it's all psytrance 
Bad production is bad production at the end of the day, regardless of genre's and I pity those who have to rip on anonymous victims to get their self esteem going.
Atma dude! You are now tarred with the same brush with which we tarred Morissey. You do some good tunes.. but man... what a dick  |
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UnderTow
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9
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1448
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 08:46
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On 2007-10-22 01:26, soulfood wrote:
Seriously though some fullon is so crisp that it hurts my ears on large systems compared to some more blunt sounding underground psytrance.
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I would say this falls under bad production (or mastering).
UnderTow |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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485
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 11:24
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| Who is this people you speak about?
I never said that "dark is to fast to be produced to the standard of full-on". |
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Who are these people ? well, there is 10 pages on this thread , and it includes you for starters.... but there are also many others who supported the idea that dark psy is well produced.... so all the arguments do not come just from you.
To answer your question here is a quote
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| The less time a note is being played the less it will develop a full tone... really not very strange is it? Of course you can't have a booming kick drum in a fast track if you want ANY room for some bass notes too.
Atma why don't you try and write some 150 bpm tracks and see what happens with your production standards? Of course there are lousy producers in every subgenre, darkpsy too...but the point I'm trying to make is that it is in fact harder to make a fast track sound well produced than a slow one. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 11:46
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On 2007-10-22 11:24, Seppa wrote:
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| Who is this people you speak about?
I never said that "dark is to fast to be produced to the standard of full-on". |
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Who are these people ? well, there is 10 pages on this thread , and it includes you for starters....
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I never said anything to that effect.
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Inner Demon
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 14:21
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Alright, I'm puzzled now and I'd like some clear answers if possible, I hear the arguments but they just don't cut it.
1) How can you slate an entire subgenre saying that its got bad production while at the same time arguing that style and production quality are unrelated?
2) Do you honestly think there aren't ANY truly skilled producers within darkpsy? Or could there be other reasons why the production standard is ever so slightly lower (but still perfectly fine IMO) than some full-on. Which is really more plausible?
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its not just the cycle of a bass freq its the whole note and envelopes, and of course the faster the music the less definition they have, the faster envelopes need to be and so on.
you can't say the bpm has no relation to what you can do sonically.
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Faxi hasn't gotten a reply to this, and this is the experience I entered this discussion with and the basis for my argument.
Are we wrong? The only counterarguments I've heard so far is that 'its a load of bollocks' and 'sure its possible' etc...
I feel there is a relation and that it becomes slightly noticeable around 150-155 as compared to 140-145.
Yes Undertow I agree that darkpsy is characterized by somewhat lower production standards than full-on if we by that refer to how tight some sounds are, but I never said the standard is low in absolute terms, I think it is perfectly acceptable. And if it wasn't obvious already that production quality is a matter of taste then you certainly made it so in your last post:
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Why not? If you separate taste from the equation, it is quite easy.
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If we separate taste from the equation there's nothing left. And there's certainly NOBODY left to do a judgement. You must see this, and you speak of inconsistencies in other's arguments. This is circular reasoning if I ever saw it.
My ears prefer sounds that aren't 'strained' and compressed to the max and so for me that doesn't represent higher production standards, but I have referred to standards that way since its the way you seem interpret it.
If you simply say 'I don't like darkpsy' that's fine. I don't like country, or goth. That's fine too. But accusing a whole genre of bad production quality is pretty lame...
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Jerry
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32
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 15:36
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Just because something takes less time to produce doesn't mean it is therefore crap by default.
If i cook a new type of dish that takes 2 hours to cook it doesn't taste better by default than just throwing a pizza in the oven either.
In simple terms one could say that it is likely less complex to make darkspy than to make full-on, in the end it's just a matter of taste and you seem to be discussing that here. |
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olivier
Side-A
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40
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1303
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 16:14
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On 2007-10-22 15:36, Jerry wrote:
Just because something takes less time to produce doesn't mean it is therefore crap by default.
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if it takes less time then it's easier. |
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olivier
Side-A
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Posted : Oct 22, 2007 16:16
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On 2007-10-22 15:36, Jerry wrote:
Just because something takes less time to produce doesn't mean it is therefore crap by default.
If i cook a new type of dish that takes 2 hours to cook it doesn't taste better by default than just throwing a pizza in the oven either.
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yeah but it's easier to cook a pizza then a well prepared and refined meal
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