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Why hasn't trance "taken off" in the USA?
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damon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 3, 2008 21:30
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On 2008-06-03 12:44, kahn wrote:
I think bluespectralmonkey brings up a great point here, that locals are often BETTER than the international headliners; and I totally agree with this. We are blessed with some extremely talented local artists, and given some time, I think they could become international artists themselves.
But yeah, this really rings true for me after seeing many internationally acclaimed DJ's and producers who really didn't deliver when it came to their sets. I think Paul Van Dyk is a great example. I have mad respect that this guy as a producer, mainly on his older trance; but each time I've seen him he's really fallen below the line I was expecting. Very few big international artists have truly DELIVERED when I've had the chance to see them.
But yeah, local DJ's ftw!
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I really would like to see how many of those local djs could still deliver after 10 years of touring, releasing, getting paid big bucks, becoming famous etc ... 
  http://www.chillumafia.com |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 4, 2008 02:55
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On 2008-06-02 09:03, bluespectralmonkey wrote:
-locals can tune in to the long - arc changes and energetic patterns/stylistic preferences in the community....
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totally agree with this comment. And our Cali djs are tuned in baba! Comments like this prove that you can see beyond just the music at party and see magic for what it really is. "We have 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak"! love that track!
now as for as this topic,
Has anyone ever heard the expression...
"It's a long race"?
Why the hurry. I kind of like the fact that its not in my backyard. That way I can make a trip out of it and go somewhere else!
http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
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Zinduka
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46
Posted : Jun 4, 2008 08:35
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nope it doesn't.
there are "ground" rules, that together are alsmost a constitution. but a law can be stopped by the supreme court if it's against any of those rules, and every citizen can petition the supreme court and challange a law. that is the right we have there. can't it be done here?
www.myspace.com/zinduka |
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Jewbacca
Started Topics :
6
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295
Posted : Jun 4, 2008 08:54
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On 2008-06-04 08:35, Zinduka wrote:
nope it doesn't.
there are "ground" rules, that together are alsmost a constitution. but a law can be stopped by the supreme court if it's against any of those rules, and every citizen can petition the supreme court and challange a law. that is the right we have there. can't it be done here?
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Not really. A single person can ATTEMPT to challenge the law but it requires LOTS of cash and a good lawyer to do so. This is why you always see petitions for things that need to be change. Basically enough people need to speak up so that a representative (usually someone in a district seat) eventually gets behind a cause and fights for the people. And even then if there are enough lobbyists then you hit a wall too.
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diogo_c
Becoming Intense
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Posted : Jun 4, 2008 10:13
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On 2008-06-02 19:22, vector_0 wrote:
in response to calls for diversity in lineups, i must point out that no matter how many "genres" are represented, it all sounds like trance to a person who primarily listens to any other type of music. thump thump thump thump..... I go to trance parties for the environment and get a little bored when 90% of the promoters attention is on the music. Often it seems they feel its not worth it to put together a chill area or round up visual/decorative artists. Personally, I could care less about "headliners" and would choose a comfortable, original environment over a big name any day of the week
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+1
i'm a big defender of 'diversity' in lineups but you've added something which i didnt realized very well up to now.
the thump-thump-thump actually bores many people and even takes some away from the parties, and organizers should be concerned about this.
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konvndrvm
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 5, 2008 00:34
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Coalesce all forms of art 
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sam i am
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 5, 2008 17:11
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"psytrance is not an art" 
new Hadal Drop album on the way
if you don't have the last one get in touch |
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electrictiedye
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2008 16:39
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When I first read this post I was so intimidated by the topic I really had to put some thought into it and I was interested in reading what you thought. Before this became a debate of the merits of small versus large parties it was a discussion of the reasons psytrance is not too popular in the U.S.
Though many of you mentioned jam-band culture as the American psychedelic alternative (or the alleged cultural ignorance of Americans) I don't think the answer is really that simple. After all house music was invented in Chicago and techno in Detroit (and it's bigger than ever---at least in urban areas); rock was a British importation (though we learned how to do it right fast). On top of that the idea of partying on acid started with the Pranksters in the Bay Area.
Despite the aversion many psy-heads have to house, essentially the first goa trance was what happened when the hippies in India thought "gee let's see what happens when we listen to acid house ON acid". (You guys should check out Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music) Psytrance is kind of like what you get if you could combine the first and second summer of loves (67 on the Haight and 89 on the Orbital)
Culturally speaking the UK shares the most similar taste to the U.S. in music and fashion (but not humor!). It might be worth noting that psy isn't that big in Britain either.
To come to think of it, psy is still relatively underground most countries in the world (ask the average joe in Bombay if he knows what psytrance it is). The only country in the world I can think of where psy has a visible presence proportional to the population is Israel, and that's because it's such a small country.
I think the real question is why the psy scene looks so different here compared to elsewhere and I think you guys have begun to touch up on some of that, but I think we've only really scratched the surface.
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electrictiedye
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2008 20:32
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I think there are a few other things at play. The first is that psytrance has to fill a niche that a group is craving. Israelis needed something to make them forget the things they did in the army, for the former Communist countries & the Balkans psy is a form of escape, Brazilians (God I love Brazilians) love anything that involves dancing outside all night. Goa, Thailand, and Bali don't fit this because the scenes were started out by foreigners who were already escaping something. You guys can prob come up with a lot of other explanations for each psy "hot spot".
The other thing at play in the U.S. is how bad we've been sucked into the system. Psytrance is just too creative and do-it-yourself for Americans. I mean kids don't even know how to play baseball by themselves anymore without joining a league. Everyone has become a marketing target group. Even sectors of society that used to start trends get thrown some commercialized version. I mean gays used to start a lot of dance and counter-culture trends and now they go on gay carnival cruises and want white-picket fenced marriages. Now instead of taking drugs to escape the system, people are taking adderall and meth to keep up with computers so they can buy more shit they don't need. People don't even know what's cool anymore. You used to get into a club based on who you knew, now it doesn't matter as long as you can afford $300 bottle service. Man this list goes on and on.
The good news is I think it's only a matter of time before it all cracks and there's another great social upheaval.
Till then we'll stay dropped out and in the woods, where you can still see the stars and the cops don't bother you... |
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Virtual Light
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2008 22:07
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Whatever it is, it's the same in Canada 
Although for us, it might be because we drive cars with square wheels and parties get busted by gangs of penguins.
All I can say is that Hyper-Yuppie culture is dominant, and Happy Hardcore parties are way bigger then psy parties will ever be.
Most people stop partying at age 17, get real jobs and join the yuppy army in hopes of raising a pack of cabbage headed yuppy babies.
(That might rebel between ages 14-17 and fry their brains on meth, ketamine and psy.)
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 14, 2008 00:18
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kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 14, 2008 00:39
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On 2008-06-13 22:07, Virtual Light wrote:
Whatever it is, it's the same in Canada
Although for us, it might be because we drive cars with square wheels and parties get busted by gangs of penguins.
All I can say is that Hyper-Yuppie culture is dominant, and Happy Hardcore parties are way bigger then psy parties will ever be.
Most people stop partying at age 17, get real jobs and join the yuppy army in hopes of raising a pack of cabbage headed yuppy babies.
(That might rebel between ages 14-17 and fry their brains on meth, ketamine and psy.)
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While I don't think it's really accurate to say you would "fry" your brain on psy (since I consider psytrance to be a highly intellectually stimulating form of music), I do think you present some great points.
Around here too, the happycore parties... namely the raves (which usually feature something along those lines... happycore... and on the better side imho electro, tech, trance,etc.) are much much bigger than any psy party I've gone to. It comes down to WHY people go out to party. Electrictiedye said it, it's a form of escapism. A lot of these people do not attend parties out of mere enthusiasm for for the music, people, and culture, but due to an obsession with escapism and and a desire to block out the world around them with substances. I think that's one of the major philosophical differences I've seen between psy culture, and other electronic music cultural gatherings... psy culture tends to attract people who want to EMBRACE their surroundings. Though this is not to say that that we can type ALL people one way or the other depending on which parties they go to. The last thing we would want to do is block out our environment, and rather than being a form of escapism, our parties are a way to fully embrace life with or without substances.
Perhaps the psy culture's obsession with psychedelics is representative of their desire to take in the full power of their surroundings, while clubs and raves tend to focus on alcohol and stimulants which numbs a person to their surroundings to some extent anyway. This is not to say that a substance can properly dictate the reason one parties, there is no general rule.
But yes, a lot of people hear "techno" and classify all electronic music under this label. They end up going to a few raves when they're young, and by the time they're of college age, they're already pursuing something different, but then I think that's what separates the people who go to parties out of mere fad purposes, and those who are truly passionate about the music and culture. This is true in the rave scene, the club scene, the psy scene, as well as most every other crowd around.
But I think we're going to witness something interesting regarding the "yuppy army" in the next few years. More and more NON urban kids are getting into parties at a younger and younger age; we're talking suburban kids here. I've witnessed this in my community, where when I graduated high school (in 05') I knew virtually nobody at my school who attended events of this sort, while nowadays I hear that there is a big "rave problem" in our local high schools, no doubt manufactured by the extreme paranoia of the "cabbage headed yuppy army." This is a culture of parents who have high expectations for their kids, and are generally quite conservative philosophically with their upbringing. The idea that their kids are going out to parties with loud music throughout the night scares the crap out of these parents. It's the new rock n' roll basically. The parents of the baby boomers were ignorant to the whole rock n' roll generation, and hence they let it scare them. Now, the baby boomers and even younger generations of parents are scared because there is another movement taking place, one which they don't understand, and therefore they react with fear. I think we're going to see more and more public outcry against raves, and inevitably against all electronic music scenes, because due to cultural ignorance, they're all going to be grouped together.
Yuppy Parents: "OH NO, THE EVIL RAVES ARE TAKING KIDS!!!!" |
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alfreak
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 14, 2008 00:45
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Virtual Light
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
52
Posted : Jun 14, 2008 01:34
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-14 00:39, kahn wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-06-13 22:07, Virtual Light wrote:
Whatever it is, it's the same in Canada
Although for us, it might be because we drive cars with square wheels and parties get busted by gangs of penguins.
All I can say is that Hyper-Yuppie culture is dominant, and Happy Hardcore parties are way bigger then psy parties will ever be.
Most people stop partying at age 17, get real jobs and join the yuppy army in hopes of raising a pack of cabbage headed yuppy babies.
(That might rebel between ages 14-17 and fry their brains on meth, ketamine and psy.)
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While I don't think it's really accurate to say you would "fry" your brain on psy (since I consider psytrance to be a highly intellectually stimulating form of music), I do think you present some great points.
Around here too, the happycore parties... namely the raves (which usually feature something along those lines... happycore... and on the better side imho electro, tech, trance,etc.) are much much bigger than any psy party I've gone to. It comes down to WHY people go out to party. Electrictiedye said it, it's a form of escapism. A lot of these people do not attend parties out of mere enthusiasm for for the music, people, and culture, but due to an obsession with escapism and and a desire to block out the world around them with substances. I think that's one of the major philosophical differences I've seen between psy culture, and other electronic music cultural gatherings... psy culture tends to attract people who want to EMBRACE their surroundings. Though this is not to say that that we can type ALL people one way or the other depending on which parties they go to. The last thing we would want to do is block out our environment, and rather than being a form of escapism, our parties are a way to fully embrace life with or without substances.
Perhaps the psy culture's obsession with psychedelics is representative of their desire to take in the full power of their surroundings, while clubs and raves tend to focus on alcohol and stimulants which numbs a person to their surroundings to some extent anyway. This is not to say that a substance can properly dictate the reason one parties, there is no general rule.
But yes, a lot of people hear "techno" and classify all electronic music under this label. They end up going to a few raves when they're young, and by the time they're of college age, they're already pursuing something different, but then I think that's what separates the people who go to parties out of mere fad purposes, and those who are truly passionate about the music and culture. This is true in the rave scene, the club scene, the psy scene, as well as most every other crowd around.
But I think we're going to witness something interesting regarding the "yuppy army" in the next few years. More and more NON urban kids are getting into parties at a younger and younger age; we're talking suburban kids here. I've witnessed this in my community, where when I graduated high school (in 05') I knew virtually nobody at my school who attended events of this sort, while nowadays I hear that there is a big "rave problem" in our local high schools, no doubt manufactured by the extreme paranoia of the "cabbage headed yuppy army." This is a culture of parents who have high expectations for their kids, and are generally quite conservative philosophically with their upbringing. The idea that their kids are going out to parties with loud music throughout the night scares the crap out of these parents. It's the new rock n' roll basically. The parents of the baby boomers were ignorant to the whole rock n' roll generation, and hence they let it scare them. Now, the baby boomers and even younger generations of parents are scared because there is another movement taking place, one which they don't understand, and therefore they react with fear. I think we're going to see more and more public outcry against raves, and inevitably against all electronic music scenes, because due to cultural ignorance, they're all going to be grouped together.
Yuppy Parents: "OH NO, THE EVIL RAVES ARE TAKING KIDS!!!!"
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That's a lot of writing ...
Bookings : Reptiloid@hotmail.com
Facebook : Vincent Virtual-Light
Soundcloud :http://soundcloud.com/virtual-light |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 14, 2008 03:14
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