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Why hasn't trance "taken off" in the USA?
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kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 29, 2008 21:43
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On 2008-05-29 19:44, diogo_c wrote:
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On 2008-05-28 22:14, DanVapid wrote:
on the bright side, since things haven't "taken off", we still have one of the most raw, unspoiled psy scenes in the world...how things used to be in other countries many many years ago. for example, gaian mind festival is considered one of the best in the world by foreigners who've experienced it, because of the clean, family, original trance vibe it has retained.
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that's a great think, cause in brazil psy has taken-off....to such a crappy direction. we're dominated by trends, like the still-strong melodic-fullon and now the psy-electro sounds....other awful aspect is that here psy is done by the elite and FOR the elite - which makes a scene corrupt to its core...parties are expensive, which narrows so much the audience.
and no one seems to want to change this, which is even worst.
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Parties should be for EVERYBODY, not just the elite! 
On that note, the stylistic differences you noted are just that, musical stylistic differences. You might not be a fan of melodic-full on, and the coming influence of electro (which has so far made its way into practically every genre of electronica), but that shouldn't detract from the overall scene and vibe.
I myself find myself on the other end of the spectrum (love the melodic full-on myself), and while the majority of our local LA scene is dark or minimal sounding, the party vibe, the people involved, and everything about it is nothing but the BEST.
Commercialism and bad vibes can work their way into any scene, regardless of the specific type of music.
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jds
Started Topics :
8
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384
Posted : May 30, 2008 00:18
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(Killer thread by the way.)
Anyway, my thoughts:
From the perspective of people already aware of or involved in the 'scene at large', the biggest issue is the massively spread out geography. We all read this forum. There are parties going on all over all the time but who's going to go all the way across their state, to another state, across the country on a weekly basis to populate these events to the extent of European festivals? Regional scenes can only grow as large as their regional population when we're dealing with these sorts of distances.
Poorly co-ordinated scheduling plays a huge role in this also. Imagine psy fests that sequentially moved from neighboring geographic region to region across the country over the course of the summer season. Anyone that ever spent time on the road going to rainbow gatherings or dead shows can attest to the very large number of people in the U.S. that are willing to travel from venue to venue provided the timing is right.
From an external perspective of people not already aware of or involved in the scene I'd add this to the list of reasons why things haven't "taken off":
Psychedelic is a bad word in America.
I think it's as simple as that. The proof is all around us. There are plenty of monstrously huge multi-day music festivals all over the country (all genres). Most of them openly condone debauchery in the form of alcohol and even promote it by being sponsored by alcohol producers.
So the issue doesn't lie with:
- the gathering of people
- loud continuous music
- substance indulgence
It's the 'psy' in psytrance (and the word trance itself) that terrifies any powers that be, prevent a large scale movement from evolving, and keeping it all relatively underground (where it should be anyway IMO).
I'd blame the 60s and the hippies for blowing psychedelia up in the face of the administration to the point where Nixon enacted the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 putting things like pot and acid into schedule 1 (ludicrous, don't even get me started on the "War on Drugs"). BUT, if it weren't for the 60s and the hippies we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion so we can't really blame them. ;-P
I'm not suggesting (and I don't believe) that psy culture is all about drugs, but words are important and unfortunately to the uninitiated, psychedelic means only one thing: drugs. 
And I'm not implying that every country outside of the U.S. openly accepts mind expansion (psychedelia) in any and every form, but there is a definite and noticeable fear in the general U.S. populace regarding lifestyles and attitudes that explore this ethos. Again, likely residual conservative lashback from the 60s. |
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konvndrvm
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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1398
Posted : May 30, 2008 00:44
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Talk about a bad flashback 
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audioassassin
Started Topics :
1
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74
Posted : May 30, 2008 10:04
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I'd say blame it on Tom Cruise |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 30, 2008 17:03
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
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Posted : May 30, 2008 20:18
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On 2008-05-28 04:55, DiMiTry wrote:
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The idea of spending my vacation time exploring more america is a big turn-off to me. Such a static, abrasive vibe here in my native land....
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Canada is nice, but you ought to try Western US. New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, Oregon, Washington.. Northern California! lots of beautiful places, lots of cool people, lots of weirdos.  And the vibe here is quite different from what you'll encounter further East.
the many road trips i've made out west were some of the best vacations i've ever had.
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Yeah, i've heard lots of good things. Will probably tour the west once i'm done with the bay of fundy, PEI, cape breton island, newfoundland, cote nord QC, and NWT
 http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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diogo_c
Becoming Intense
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21
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233
Posted : May 31, 2008 01:03
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Parties should be for EVERYBODY, not just the elite!
On that note, the stylistic differences you noted are just that, musical stylistic differences. You might not be a fan of melodic-full on, and the coming influence of electro (which has so far made its way into practically every genre of electronica), but that shouldn't detract from the overall scene and vibe.
I myself find myself on the other end of the spectrum (love the melodic full-on myself), and while the majority of our local LA scene is dark or minimal sounding, the party vibe, the people involved, and everything about it is nothing but the BEST.
Commercialism and bad vibes can work their way into any scene, regardless of the specific type of music.
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absolutely with you dude!
i really don't bother with the styles, we gotta have space for all - thats my point: here in brazil we ONLY have the trends, nothing else. yesterday was all fullon, today is fullon + electro...so here we have an equation thats like "diversity = zero".
that has to do with the point i've raise, about the people. its not surprising for me things here have been growing this way, just have a chat with most 'trancers' and you will figure out that they are very narrow-minded, uneducated, elitists jerks that can't communicate on a level other than "killlllllah sound, killaaaah dope" and so on.
everybody sees brazil as a great place for psytrance - and it really can be! but there's this aspect which most people dont point out, cause you gotta live here everyday to really figure that out...and it's so depressing.
i have a relatively successful project that is signed to a major psy label, releasing tracks among great artists and i cant get a single gig here since last year. why?
hehe
great thread, superb discussion level!
keep it up!
best regards!
https://www.facebook.com/BiijahRecords
__________________________
Email diogocborges@gmail.com for friendly, affordable and high quality Mixing and Mastering services! |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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113
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Posted : May 31, 2008 06:46
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On 2008-05-31 01:03, diogo_c wrote:
that has to do with the point i've raise, about the people. its not surprising for me things here have been growing this way, just have a chat with most 'trancers' and you will figure out that they are very narrow-minded, uneducated, elitists jerks that can't communicate on a level other than "killlllllah sound, killaaaah dope" and so on.
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wow, i'm so glad someone else thinks this too, i was starting to think i was going crazy.
yeah, i find a lot of elitism and narrow-mindedness in the trance scene too...."trancers" need their music/parties/friends to meet specific criteria, and if everything on their checklist isn't covered, then they don't want to hear/see/interact with it.
disclaimer: this is a generalization and does not apply to all "trancers"
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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diogo_c
Becoming Intense
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Posted : May 31, 2008 22:01
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disclaimer: this is a generalization and does not apply to all "trancers"
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+1! |
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Zinduka
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Posted : Jun 1, 2008 07:45
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Well... for someone who grew up in the Israeli scene of the 90's, participating in a scene so small again can be quite fun.
Whenever i think about the northern cali scene the word that comes to mind is "Tribal", same for the one down in south cali.
commercialism of this scene will kill it, it will fill the parties with people who come to a psytrance party to get fucked up in nature rather then in a club, with no appreciation to the ideas behind psytrance. (it's already happening by the way).
psytrance is not about parting in my mind. its about a psychedelic society, about gatherings that are true safe psychedelic environment. a good party leaves me rejuvenated for a long time & helps me gain my inner balance.
if that is being elite and narrow minded then i'll wear that hat.
don't get me wrong, i do want a great big scene here, but it will take a lot of time, as the scene is a micro-cosmos of the states, filled with diversity and ideas, yet constantly fighting an establishment and society that mocks the different.
the way to get the scene going is to explain the ideas behind it, point out the difference between this and any other form of "RAVE" to the people around you. bring out "fresh meat" and let them experience it. when you talk to someone and describe a party, they are automatically conditioned into thinking "RAVE", eliminate that and we have a chance, maybe we can get psytrance excluded from the rave act
but that is on a different level.
as far as a bit more earthly things, venues, money & laws are the biggest things preventing the scene from growing imo.
www.myspace.com/zinduka |
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konvndrvm
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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1398
Posted : Jun 1, 2008 08:19
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Post of the Century~^
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Jewbacca
Started Topics :
6
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295
Posted : Jun 1, 2008 11:14
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very well said shai |
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diogo_c
Becoming Intense
Started Topics :
21
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233
Posted : Jun 1, 2008 11:49
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taking a brief look at some usa's lineups i can figure out you guys are building a more open-minded scene when it comes to the sounds that are being offered in a party, and that's fantastic.
imo, that has to be something for everyone and for every time of day....and this is not hard to get since the very nature of the sounds asks for some specific periods of the day....
i cant imagine playing my stuff on a time spot other than the night, and so on...i feel very disappointed when i see melodic, uplifting and bright stuff that are perfect for the mornings been played at 2am here in brazil, like eskimo, gms n stuff.....but people like it, they don't complain and it comes to the lack of diversity i've pointing out about my country's scene.
i also see you guys are facing some law issues there....how is that? what is going on, drugs, environmental issues?
here we have some issues concerning drugs (lol) and also nature/environmental policies - this last one should be respected of course, for our planet's sake...one of our biggest festival was canceled three times cause the dumb organizers took two years to make it on a place that was "ecologically proper" and with nature-respecting policies.
best regards!
keep it up!
https://www.facebook.com/BiijahRecords
__________________________
Email diogocborges@gmail.com for friendly, affordable and high quality Mixing and Mastering services! |
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Zinduka
Started Topics :
2
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46
Posted : Jun 1, 2008 22:22
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On 2008-06-01 11:49, diogo_c wrote:
taking a brief look at some usa's lineups i can figure out you guys are building a more open-minded scene when it comes to the sounds that are being offered in a party, and that's fantastic.
imo, that has to be something for everyone and for every time of day....and this is not hard to get since the very nature of the sounds asks for some specific periods of the day....
i cant imagine playing my stuff on a time spot other than the night, and so on...i feel very disappointed when i see melodic, uplifting and bright stuff that are perfect for the mornings been played at 2am here in brazil, like eskimo, gms n stuff.....but people like it, they don't complain and it comes to the lack of diversity i've pointing out about my country's scene.
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well.. as far as the cali scene is concerned unfortunately the situation is the lack of diversity within the psytrance genre.
if you tell people there is a psytribe party - we can all pretty much guess the lineup and music style. same for all other promoters in the area. no disrespect for anyone who is throwing parties, most of them are my good friends, but usually you get either a fullon or a dark party, and an occasional prog party. with the exception of lunar sun that tried to connect a bunch of genres together (succesfully i might add - 450 people showed up, the orginaizers actually made money - which is very rare here), and gemini which hosts numerous artists and dj's, even goa gil's parties are now a range of dark trance form the twisted glitchy to more funky and groovy but still dark.
of course i have no idea what goes on anywhere else in the country.
still, the focus on the music at a party should be as a tool rather then the highlight. it can draw you into it, create experiences, but it can also make you run away and experience other things around the space. but that space has to be a comfortable psychedelic space, which doesn't necessarily means everybody on psychedelics (and NO - E is not psychedelic, nor is the wildly available /\/\D/\/\A on the market) it means people are sensitive enough to each other's energy to not intrude but accept, a thing when you are drunk or on E, which happens alot here, you aren't able to accept.
goes back to the elitists point a little, but if you come out to psytrance parties to roll and get laid - you came to the wrong place.
first of all sex on acid is much better.
but psychedelics in general will put you in a position to push the envelops of the sounds you are hearing, and to more easily see the image the sounds are painting. doesn't mean you have to be on it at the party, but if you at least experienced it once, you carry it around through all the parties you go to.
getting stuck on one genre through a whole party is pointless as it eliminates the whole idea of a journey, which is the point of the party, giving people a safe place to expand their minds and ideas while connecting them with nature.
www.myspace.com/zinduka |
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~Jessica~
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
370
Posted : Jun 1, 2008 22:50
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On 2008-06-01 07:45, Zinduka wrote:
Well... for someone who grew up in the Israeli scene of the 90's, participating in a scene so small again can be quite fun.
Whenever i think about the northern cali scene the word that comes to mind is "Tribal", same for the one down in south cali.
commercialism of this scene will kill it, it will fill the parties with people who come to a psytrance party to get fucked up in nature rather then in a club, with no appreciation to the ideas behind psytrance. (it's already happening by the way).
psytrance is not about parting in my mind. its about a psychedelic society, about gatherings that are true safe psychedelic environment. a good party leaves me rejuvenated for a long time & helps me gain my inner balance.
if that is being elite and narrow minded then i'll wear that hat.
don't get me wrong, i do want a great big scene here, but it will take a lot of time, as the scene is a micro-cosmos of the states, filled with diversity and ideas, yet constantly fighting an establishment and society that mocks the different.
the way to get the scene going is to explain the ideas behind it, point out the difference between this and any other form of "RAVE" to the people around you. bring out "fresh meat" and let them experience it. when you talk to someone and describe a party, they are automatically conditioned into thinking "RAVE", eliminate that and we have a chance, maybe we can get psytrance excluded from the rave act
but that is on a different level.
as far as a bit more earthly things, venues, money & laws are the biggest things preventing the scene from growing imo.
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Pretty much took the words out of brain. I enjoy the US psy events. I would much rather be at a psy event with 100-500 people than some huge ass party. I think it makes it that much more special. If a random (non psytrance) person wants to drive out to bfe to experience a psy party than I think that's kick ass! New blood is always good. Between that and "inviting" people who haven't ever been before is the way to go.
I woud hate for the US psy scene to turn into thousands of people. I think we have a great underground welcoming scene here....With people who are there for the music and the whole experience...
Jessica
Atrium Obscurum
www.myspace.com/luckieleo Add me on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000044207097 |
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