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why goa gil ?
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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2562
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 10:04
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being an indian is most probably the first category to be a saddhu. All else is fake. True we have fake indian sadhus. But gil and the story is probably the most far fetched .
He is a good Dj/product of his marketing . Lets just leave it at that, wont we now ? |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 12, 2008 10:43
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Well, then please let me know if you have any holy scriptures where it is written that a foreigner cannot be a saddhu.
At least there seems to be a big variety of saddhus who have taken the initiation and are not born in India.
Here a few: http://www.adolphus.nl/sadhus/falang.html
Abd there are a lot of others, btw especially there are a lot of women who have been initiated and dont come from India, simply because they are supposedly more free of social engagements and free of the idea that a woman is mainly reincarnated in order to get merried and have children. This is what i know from the Indian saddhus myself : they are intensively looking for foreign women because in India the women only go to an initiation if their husband dies or if they cannot have a husband because of other reasons. Only a few other cases.
And btw many ppl who are born elsewhere, have been in India in their previous reincarnations.
About the marketing, well i guess there will always be ppl who say that. But as far as i read it, i will always say on the contrary that i dont think that it is true. SImply because i really believe that Goa Gil Trance Party experience is something very different from anything else, and yes, i dont even want to hear other djs during this kind of ritual. Except Ariane, because she also really knows what she is doing and keeps it pure. Yes I dont enjoy big festivals so much, i dont enjoy the marketing stories of most djs, i dont enjoy their worldly games of power and fame, and i have never met a more special dj than Goa Gil till now. May be i will, in the future, but till now, i believe that his thing is sacred, and no matter how you call his thing, saddhu or not, for me it is just sacred. So i will leave it at that. He is simply more than a good Dj, much more.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1931
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 22:35
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oh and i forgot to mention that i really hope that not everyone from tantrumm records thinks like that about goa gil : "never been a saddhu and never will be". great amount of favourite artists release for tantrumm and btw those who follow the divine dozen of goa gil know that almost every release of tantrumm has been among the chosen which has to mean sth! pity to read this here with all my respect to this great label.
btw this thing about the pronunciation of mantras only possible for ppl grown up in india, this is ...well i will not be as direct as i want but it is simply not my point of view and i truly believe that many ppl born in india dont even speak sanskrit and actually being a saddhu has nothing to do with the place of birth. if a saddhu is allowed to fly through the globe or not,, maybe we should ask the saddhus that gave the initiation to goa gil instead of answering this ourselves and always in front of 1000 freaks reading that who never had a goa gil experience . so the useless discussion will go on forever. and ever
and yes saddhus DO deny some things. especially the naga babas. they are the warriors who have to protect the sacred. simply ask them
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gandharva
IsraTrance Junior Member
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22
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338
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 23:44
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yeah a saddhu that only accepts to be in 5 star hotels every time he is booked to play . i see a lot of dumb people here. the man just uses a filosophy to earn money just as simple as that. this is a bussiness like any other he is a professional dj that charges a lot of money every time that plays. a saddhu?? dont make laught please
 dont worry be hippie |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 00:58
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Music aside, our releases aside, the divine dozen aside...kindly do not drag the label into this.
Many people in India do not speak Sanskrit, but 98% of the Indian population speaks Hindi, a branch of Sanskrit...many words are the same and the general verbosity is the same. The manner in which the mouth moves, enunciation etc etc are directly influenced by Sanskrit. As was said, effect of a mantra does not lie in it's meaning...it lies in the sonic vibrations. Each sound corresponds to a petal on a chakra and when that sound is pronounced the petal begins to vibrate and thus the effect. Even a slight deflection from the intended sonic vibration renders the mantra useless. And this is not the point. The point is that one may use the term "Sadhu" flexibly to define a person who in general follows a path of renunciation but this is the english adaptation of the word. Indian sadhus looking for foreign women is the exact PROBLEM... they look for foreign women cause usually foreign women tend to be more liberal and alot of such women end up having worse experiences than pleasant ones. Such Sadhus if real sadhus should not be looking for women PERIOD. Get the point. Anyone can take the initiation, and that's the point...it doesn't make it REAL. This is just a recent gimmick that did not exist prior to commercialization of SPIRITUALITY. Certain aspects are very much influenced by one's place of birth..so you may like to believe that it's not, but unfortunately IT IS. I could live in China for 25 years but it doesn't make me CHINESE and I will never speak Chinese like one born in China. So, this discussion is not about our artists or our releases, it's a healthy discussion and was spoken with respect. Unfortunately for me as an Indian, it's a sorry state of affairs when religion can be sold so easily and manipulated in such a gross manner. With no disrespect intended to anyone...Kindly Let's stick to the discussion and not belittle those who do not share the same opinion.
The Sanskrit terms sadhu ("good man") and sadhvi ("good woman") refer to renouncers who have chosen to live a life apart from or on the edges of society in order to focus on their own spiritual practice.[1]
In Hinduism, sadhu is a common term for an ascetic or practitioner of yoga (yogi) who has given up pursuit of the first three Hindu goals of life: kama (enjoyment), artha (practical objectives) and even dharma (duty). The sadhu is solely dedicated to achieving moksha (liberation) through meditation and contemplation of God. Sadhus often wear ochre-colored clothing, symbolizing renunciation.
The ruggedness of the sadhu life deters many from following the sadhu path. Such practices as the obligatory early morning bath in the cold mountains require a detachment from common luxuries.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 09:08
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On 2008-11-09 09:18, KundaliniRising wrote:
Archetypes like Sadhu, Shiva , Kali, Ganesha, Baba etc are all used only for marketing and nothing else and nobody is to be blamed, as all these are a part of the package of this Monetary economy.
The Archetype Jesus was over-sold so nobody bothered using it in the scene.
and no-one was interested in using The Archetype "Allah", maybe they feared the "Jihad"
The Law of Perception says that in the battle between products, perception is more important than reality.
Marketing strategies without emotion will not work.
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new messege from god
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=427877368
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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38
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1931
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 09:37
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of course it is not a discussion about a label but if an opinion is written on behalve of a label, it has a slightly different scale.
i don't belittle the opinion of others, on the contrary, i am very interested to see what others think, otherwise i would not be reading and writing here:). but i hope that i have the right to say what i believe in? you believe he is not a saddhu, i believe he is, simply because i have had the honour to spend some time with so called real indian saddhus and for me what goa gil does is ways more real and sacred than what they do.
fact is that not everyone can get initiation and every one who has ever been to kumbh mela where the initiations take place, knows what i am talking about. it is even very difficult to get there, for foreigners as well as for non foreigners. from the 60 millions of ppl who take this holy bath in ganga, only a few are a naga baba which speaks for itself. i know some european and american women who have had the initiation, real sadhvis who are very deep into this whole thing and their stories show very particular reasons for taking them into initiation : for instance one of the higher gurus has had an insight or a vision that a foreigner should be his next disciple, or someone has seen it in the akasha chronics that the further lineage should be taken by a foreigner. those people really know what they do. and if they choose a foreigner, they know why.
about the pronunciation, well, okey, as i said in the beginning, i am really trying not to argue on isratrance, because i have read 1000 times how easy the missunderstandings between the people occur. i will leave it by that. may be we foreigners would never learn how to pronunciate them, may be we need 100 years to learn this properly. anything is possible. i dont share the point of view but i dont want to argue either, because it is meaningless to discuss if a foreigner can speak sanskrit with the suitable pronunciation. ( btw if you get initiated the first thing you get is a mantra, which has to be repeated so often till the sonic vibrations occurs which is needed, and i have never heard till now, from any indian spiritual teacher that if hindi is not the mother language, it is almost impossible to learn it:, it is the first time to hear this hear on isratrance but we are learing all life long, thanks for the hint:).
fact is that he is officially initiated as one. he did not call himself a saddhu just like that. someone gave him this "role" . so i find it just a bit disrespectful to say that he is not and never will be a saddhu. who are we to judge:)? yes, he is does many things that are non-saddhu, many things that i dont understand either but the fact is that he is officially given this " title" in an official spiritual lineage....
besides , i have seen him sleep in much much worse conditions than a 5 star hotel:). we live in a world of polarities and contraditions, i can really see your point, and in many aspects, i feel very well what you want to say, but on the contrary there is always the other side of the truth. but anyway you can discuss it the way you want, and sure it is easy to talk about initiations and saddhus and never have seen the kumbha mela experience of mangalanand giri ( goa gil) itself or never have talked to the indian saddhus about those things regarding foreigners:). i just dont see the point that religion has been commercialized by goa gil. usually the people who do it in the west, take tausands and tausands, very big amount of money, for even one yoga course. goa gil, at least in my opinion, takes only as little as it is needed to buy his technical equipment and pay the standart living. but ok, everyone has a different opinion. i hoped that with this video i could put some light in this discussion that is going on for years now, especiall the thing that he doesnt share stages and so on, but i see it was useless:).
wish you a nice day, and may be if we meet one day, you could show me some right pronunciations of the mantras, i would be very interested:)
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 11:16
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For me it's a HUGE disrespect that the term "Sadhu" has become a bloody trend... and the Sadhus you meet are probably fake ones and this is the whole problem. The scene is riddled by fakes, and this is the product. To be a Sadhu is not a joke madam. ANyone can be intiated, but one has to rise to the occasion and inculcate the virtues of being a Sadhu EVERY WAKING MOMENT and not only occasionally. Sadhus who claim the "lineage should be acrried on by a foreigner etc etc"..a bunch of fakes I say, luring the ever innocent and wide eyed searchers of spirituality..THIS IS A TREND.
Usually before intiation, the person has to attend their own funeral...this is symbolic of the fact that they do not exist anymore, they sever all ties and bonds, THUS THE NO IDENTITY. Unfortuantely, Gil, while great and a charming human being, a great DJ etc etc IS NOT A SADHU. Being a sadhu is a 24x7 commitement, and maybe you didn't read what i wrote. One must break all ties, live away from society, deny luxeries, have no duties save to serve the Lord, have NO NAME as a name identifies with the ego. SO kindly keep you neo commercialzed psychedelic spirituality to yourself. This is not the true and pure aspect of what it should be. It's a great disrespect on your part to be so foolish and make something like this into a joke. That's what you'll have done....MADE IT A JOKE. Gil is not a Sadhu, he has a wife, he has a huge name, he has not left all material endeavours, he runs a label. Sorry sister...not a sadhu. DO not taint my religion, STop MAking a joke of India and it's traditions...and unfortunately for you and alot of people, due to this new trend of foreigners wanting to come and get intiated..the by product... ALOT OF FAKE SADHUS GIVING FAKE INTIATION SAYING FAKE THINGS....don't be so gullible and believe it all. And don't lecture me on what has existed in our country since the start, India is one of the few lands which has remained true to it's religion, has it's traditions alive. Don't make a joke of it, and don't think that such things can be achieved so easily. one intiation didn't make no one a Sadhu. A sadhu is a way of life and unfortunately, Gil's life doesn't not correspond to that. Going to the Kumbh a couple of times didn't make no one a sadhu or a saadhvie either. Get real and don't be under so much MAYA (Illusion). Stop using the term "Official"..it's kind of completely in conflict with the whole issue of initiation. One doesn't receive a certifictae when they get intiated. Being intiated doesn't mean anything....living it as a Sadhu is the true test.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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frambonas
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
166
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 12:24
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On 2008-11-12 23:44, gandharva wrote:
yeah a saddhu that only accepts to be in 5 star hotels every time he is booked to play . i see a lot of dumb people here. the man just uses a filosophy to earn money just as simple as that. this is a bussiness like any other he is a professional dj that charges a lot of money every time that plays. a saddhu?? dont make laught please
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I totally agree with you.
He's a pain in the ass if you want him at your party, he needs a good hotel, the best food, and no other dj's can play.
Maybe he's afraid if some guy playes before him that can mix. |
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theendtone
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
100
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 13:21
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On 2008-11-13 12:24, frambonas wrote:
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On 2008-11-12 23:44, gandharva wrote:
yeah a saddhu that only accepts to be in 5 star hotels every time he is booked to play . i see a lot of dumb people here. the man just uses a filosophy to earn money just as simple as that. this is a bussiness like any other he is a professional dj that charges a lot of money every time that plays. a saddhu?? dont make laught please
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I totally agree with you.
He's a pain in the ass if you want him at your party, he needs a good hotel, the best food, and no other dj's can play.
Maybe he's afraid if some guy playes before him that can mix.
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+1 |
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Braindrop
Braindrop
Started Topics :
140
Posts :
1730
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 14:13
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On 2008-11-13 11:16, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Gil is not a Sadhu, he has a wife, he has a huge name, he has not left all material endeavours, he runs a label. Sorry sister...not a sadhu. DO not taint my religion, STop MAking a joke of India and it's traditions...and unfortunately for you and alot of people, due to this new trend of foreigners wanting to come and get intiated..the by product... ALOT OF FAKE SADHUS GIVING FAKE INTIATION SAYING FAKE THINGS....don't be so gullible and believe it all.
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+ 100 . I know im gonna receive some flak for this again. As she says, there are loads of loads of Sadhus, fake ones, and do not listen to their crap.... Its just their way to trap people. It takes a lot to be a real Sadhu. Complete isolation of materialism. And its a state that cannot be acheived in a fortnight. So plz ... ppl.... before u make any statements about who or wat a Sadhu is... plz do some research.
www.braindrop.in |
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Braindrop
Braindrop
Started Topics :
140
Posts :
1730
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 14:31
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On 2008-11-12 22:35, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
oh and i forgot to mention that i really hope that not everyone from tantrumm records thinks like that about goa gil : "never been a saddhu and never will be". great amount of favourite artists release for tantrumm and btw those who follow the divine dozen of goa gil know that almost every release of tantrumm has been among the chosen which has to mean sth! pity to read this here with all my respect to this great label.
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Another thing i wld actually want to understand... Abt the Divine Dozen... is it like some sort of Ministry of Psytrance? I cannot clearly understand the hype behind it! There r so many different varied psychedelic sounds been dished out.. and quality ones too. Wonder why they dont feature there!
www.braindrop.in |
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insane
Silent Horror
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
1983
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 14:50
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^ The divine dozen is where new artists get recognition ... cause Goa-gil says so .. that their too damn good .. also because he doesnt receive the "Cream" music wat happened years ago ..
i think goa-gil is more like a brand name.. no disrespect to him at all .. but please dont make him a Sadhu for god sake .. let alone his thesis on life and psytrance and etc etc... he might know and b doin better than the rest.. but dont go to an extent of naming a Normal - living in the material world- a sadhu ... ofcourse there are Pandits who are fakes.. but a Sadhu is NOT goa gil.
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NEMESIS - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2007
PATTERNS EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2009
SEANCE - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2011
PATTERNS II EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2013 |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 15:59
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Dear Fria,
actually i dont even want to discuss the thing further because i see how confessed you are that you are right. and this makes a discussion a kind of useless. OK, he is not a saddhu, and only Indians can be, all else is fake, and we foreigners are all the intruders who want to destroy the great culture of India:) are you satisfied now sister:)))?
and as i said it is pity to write this on behalve of the whole label, as you wrote your first post. May be not everyone from tantrumm thinks like you? May be there are ppl released for tantrumm who respect what he does? And if not, then i can only say very pity. And how much times are you gonna repeat that he always sleeps in 5 star hotels. Many people that know him are laughing at what you say. We have seen him sleep also in the most underground hostels.
No i dont want to get initiated. I went to Kumbha Mela only because i wanted to see what it is going on there but i refused to get initiated. I have my own traditions in my own culture which i prefer to follow. So you think i am making a fun of India and Goa Gil is also making a fun of India? Dear, HE made the trance scene in India what it is! And i think that many ppl learned from him what a saddhu is at all....and that there are saddhus at all.....And lot of us started to respect India after he spred the message, not before that. This is what you call fun of India?
May I ask what experience you ve made with the saddhus then sister, who are the saddhus that you met that are so different from those that i did? have you made the Kumbha Mela experience with the naga Babas, the real Indian ones or not? But i know you will have a certain answer of that which will certainly show everyone how little we know of india and how big intruders foreigners are in India. that is why most ppl that i know dont even go to goa anymore, and believe me i had the chance to get an " initiation" but i dont want to. I am not seeking for this particular spirituality, i am interested in every culture on the globe, the Indian one is only a small part of the puzzle. But i see that you feel bad that we are coming to India to explore the spiritual paths ?:)
The Gil Topic is gone for me. I have said everything that i had in the video my sister. It speaks for itself. And in the story that i wrote about Kumbha Mela ( let me know if you havent read the story, then i will send it to you):).
otherwise, what can i say. As always just a proof that we live in Kali Yuga, the dark ages. Now you can write a couple hundert of posts dear isratrancers, just go on, you all know Goa Gil soooo well, you know where he sleeps and all the rest about everything. So the next please ---->
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mk47
Inactive User
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118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 16:20
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hes just a dj
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