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why goa gil ?
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1931
Posted : Nov 25, 2008 12:32
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Quote: "all i was tryin to point out here was factual incorrectness in ur claim moki , coz I guess according to most Indians , we think a sadhu is basically a saint"
it is somehow pity that even after 10 pages of writing and serious discussing, i still have no answer of my questions....
but mk47 i hope that we are now at least in one opinion about the fact that he is accepted among the sadhus at least, cause he is a part of the highest order of Juna Akhara? so what you say at the end or at least what i think you say as a conclusion , is that the holiest babas of the order have made a mistake. is that so?
p.s. and one more question. do actually the naga babas themselves ever get critisised in public in the media in India? or is it absolute tabu?
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OH REALLY ?
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73
Posted : Nov 25, 2008 12:49
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no moki ,
the naga babas never get criticised in public in the media. may be some healthy discussion related to them but hardly any sort of critiism on a large scale.
u dont often read or hear anything bad about them , they are generally very good people and clean at heart which is the reason why they have chosen this lifestyle.
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mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 14:23
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well moki , the thing is , if u would have cared to read what i have said more than a few times in this thread is that .. yes , gil did indeed live that life back in the 70`s /80`s or whenever it was when he first came to india and got initiated by the babas , he also practiced yoga / meditation and all the rest that goes with it .. but that was in the past .. again at the risk of sounding like a stuck record .. it is not a degree course that u do once and then get on with your life .. not a temporary job .. the guys he goes and visits at the kumbh live the life of a sadhu everyday ! those guys don`t have other jobs , because .. a sadhu does not work , he has only 1 mission .. to reach moksha / enlightenment .. that is the very definition of the word
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what i think you say as a conclusion , is that the holiest babas of the order have made a mistake. is that so?
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what mistake , allowing someone to come sit with them ? theyr not like that , when i went i sat and talked to / smoked with many there .. they don't care  .. and how many of the holiest babas have a job and a woman ?
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 18:16
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i read very carefully everything that you all say in the thread:). the idea that he does not fit to the definitions, we already made it clear. you are right. but didnt we make it also clear that he is not just sitting with the babas. i mean the babas call him baba too. he has a lineage, has a name of initiation, has his guru bais ( guru brothers, that have been initiated together with him). didnt we already make it clear that he is not just sitting there?:) please dont take this as any agressive offense, i just wanna know....
well i was also sitting with the babas but it doesnt slightly make me any baba. well anyway i was probably the one from the whole group there that did not follow any of the guru pyramids and rules, but anyway also the others that sat there are not even a little bit of babas. we are just tourists at the end of the day. and he not. i mean he is really there with the babas.....he is not just sitting. really not. that is why i asked so often if you saw the Juna Akhara at the Kumbha Mela, not to show you how great it was that i was there, but just because i think you would never say he was just sitting, if you were there.
so the mistake i meant is that if you critises Mangaland Giri (aka Goa Gil) so much as you did in this discussion, then doesnt it mean that you dont think that the babas made a good thing to take him in the order.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 18:39
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phiber_optixz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 05:10
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On 2008-11-25 18:39, Colin OOOD wrote:
I got called a baba in India by babas, because of my dreads, I can't see how that means anything.
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The term "baba" is very common among trancers here in India. They'll call anyone a baba who smokes ganja and listens to psytrance. Doesn't matter to me.
That baba and Gil baba are very different, you know? 
PS: Dont wear dreadlocks next time you're in India. They wont call you baba... hehehe 
 Om Trayambakam Yajaamahe
Sugandhim Pushti - vardhanam|
Urva - rukamiva Bandhanan
Mrytor - muksheeya ma - amritaat|| |
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mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 08:03
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..but didnt we make it also clear that he is not just sitting with the babas. i mean the babas call him baba too.
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`baba` fyi happens to be one of the most common words in India , grandfather/old men are commonly referred to as baba , as are little kids , its also an endearment .. i call my girl baba many times for eg.. my folks call me baba some times , and its been fashionable in the `psy scene` to refer to fellow tokers as `baba` for a while now .. there's many many other examples i can give u on its usage here .. its not restricted to the domain of sadhus tho that's where its origins lie . basically , the fact that some sadhu referred to gil as baba .. means nothing
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..he has a lineage, has a name of initiation, has his guru bais ( guru brothers, that have been initiated together with him)
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sure he does , but that was back in the day when he did all the yoga / meditation and various austerities that go with it and he got initiated , im not arguing with that . Present day .. his activities have nothing to do with being a sadhu .
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..we are just tourists at the end of the day. and he not. i mean he is really there with the babas.....he is not just sitting. really not.
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sure were tourists , but sorry , so is gil .. coz he , much like us common folk , also just visits the kumbh .. what about the years in between when there is no kumbh ? what is he up to then , and what are his `fellow sadhus` up to ? .. I saw that video of urs .. i remember gil talking all about how he likes to keep his dj music thing separate from this sadhu scene ... how convenient  ..
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..so the mistake i meant is that if you critises Mangaland Giri (aka Goa Gil) so much as you did in this discussion, then doesnt it mean that you dont think that the babas made a good thing to take him in the order.
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yeah , well maybe those babas should be invited to a gil party to see just what mr manglanand giri is upto all those years in between when they , on the other hand , play it by the book , so to speak .
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 12:20
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yes but they know what he does already.
i find it unbelievable that you still dont see it.
he is a baba in the order of juna akhara. and even if he doesnt fit to the definitions , he is still a baba in the order.
i dont know how it is exactly in india, but for instance in christianity you can never just dress like a priest, go to a church and start praying cause no one from the other priests or monchs will ever let you do that.
for instance on the kumbha mela we the visitors and tourists were sleeping in a different place, different big tents some more meters from the dhunis, and he was sleeping at the place where the nagababas were. he is treated like a baba. i am sure not by all, and i am sure that many of them have the same ideias like the people from the discussion, kind of fundamentalist approach but at least he is one of them. it is unbelievable that you still dont see that. reluctantly or not, they accept him.
and i dont even want to mention how baba rampuri , his dear friend from the hippie times, is treated. he has been initiated in a quite higher position of the order and he is being served. he is being begged and he gives blesses to people from indian villages. he has disciples and followers. i dont know, you have to really see it in order to talk about it.
india has a very pyramidal structure of spirituality, it was like that for hundreds of years, there were 4 casts of people and even after gandhi india is traditionally known for an extreme hierarchy - that is, you HAVE to respect the people that stand higher in the pyramid. ( just to give you an idea, in other continents it is not so extreme, and we had a revolutionary switch some hundreds years ago that made it possible to see god without the church and without paying taxes to the church, since then we are slowly loosing the connection to our so called holy men). but in india you still have this extreme pyramid.
and what i mean is, you have to accept that he has a higher place than many many indians that go to kumbha mela, and a higher place than most foreigner tourists and devotees too. it is the way it is in Juna Akara. but keep in mind , india is a vaaaaaaaaaast country of 1 000 000 000 and the naga babas are only 30000. so people on the streets often see it as a miracle to witness a sadhu or sadvi walking on the street and if they see someone looking like that ( and it is a fact that many of us look like that with the dreads) they just stop you and ask you if you are a baba or whatever, or they shout at you BABA. but it doesnt make you a baba. it is just what they think, and btw it makes a difference by whom you are called like that. being called like that on the street doesnt mean anything, but being called in the highest order of juna akara is a totally different thing.
you have to admit that he has his place there. he is not just tourist. simply not. annd even if he doesnt fit the definitions, he is there. at least that you have to admit. or no?
i saw many fakes their on the kumbh. fake sadhus. it is quite normal because india is not a very rich country, there is incredible amount of poverty, and ppl simply dress as sadhus, get their dreads and chillums, and then just walk around. dont forget that on the main bathe days you have to give dakshina or presents money to the sadhus, to any sadhu that you see, so it is a perfect opportunity for the fakes to collect some money for the family. but still, they are just fakes, even if they get called baba, they are not, and they dont officially belong to juna akhara. they have no lineage. but you cannot even to the slightest compare him with that. cause he is there among them.
p.s. and his wife is much more a partner in the holy ritual, partner priestess, something like that, and not just a wife.
peace! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 15:20
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Well, anyway, i would like to thank you all for this discussion. It helped me see a lot of things, even if my opinion was not changed. It was nice to talk with you. I sort of realized that i should go again to India soon , at least for a while, and learn more.
I really really love the babas, they are incredible figures. They are so positive ( mostly) and so interesting to talk with. And besides you ( freaks from India) cant even imagine how incredible it is for someone from Europe to have holy men smoking chillums, our holy men are so boring, you cant believe. I love the Babas. And even if i would never fit to them cause my principle is to deny pyramids, i really really love to be near them. They are so natural and beautiful creatures......
And i guess i just have this urge to write about the experience there on the Mela. I just cant say everything in the forum, i have to sit and write it down. The most important thing that i understood there: that GOD IS A FREQUENCE. do you know something, there on the days of the holy bath, millions of Indians come to worship the Naga Babas and give them dakshina or presents, and touch their foot. and even if i dont like the pyramids and never touched the feet of any guru there, i did it once before i left Kumbha Mela and it was with Mangaland Giri aka Goa Gil ( which btw quite embarassed him cause he simply doesnt have this pyramid attidute that he has to be the big guru with disciples, he just doesnt want any of that). And i am not interested if he fits to the definitions, i just know one thing. This person made me see God in the frequence, and it means he was for me a Channel to God, so i give him the biggest respect which i hardly actually do with any other authority.
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 15:59
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lol |
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 16:25
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So u ( Moki.Time.Wave.Zero ) are really thinking, that the fact, that u think, that some important sadhus seem to respect Goa Gil as a sadhu means more then the fact, that Goa Gil obviously does not live the life of a sadhu?
1. It`s hard to prove respect
2. it`s hard to believe in anyone trying to prove respect of others about others
3. even so he would have the respect, it does not mean, that he is a sadhu: that`s no logic, since it`s also possible to respect someone for something, that he actualy is not ...
Actualy, just from the logic point of view, it`s very hard to accept Goa Gil as a saddhu
Respect! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 18:56
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we are all the time rotating around one and the same thing.
well Gunter, please tell me, if a christian priest comes and says : People, this music that you hear in the churches is not in the right octave , i will try to play something else and we have to listen to totally different music in the Cathedrals on Saturdays or Sunday or whatever,and i will do that, then he will definitely not fit the definitions, but he is still gonna be a priest from the order. Or no?????????????????????????? Not to see it a direct conncetion cause Goa GIl would never play trance with the babas but anyway. Forget the definitions, i was talking about the official order. This cannot be a factual mistake. Cause the official order of Juna Akhara is something very objective. And if a Christian priest doesnt fit the rules of the church and has a woman, he is still a priest isnt he???????????? About the logic point, well at the end may be we all keep in mind finally that religion has never been about logic. it is about believing.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 19:22
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2008 19:48
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So Moki.Time.Wave.Zero (I guess your name is Tina?): you indirectly answerd my question with yes.
Then, for me, there is no basis for discussion anymore. Since it`s obvious , that each one won`t move from his / her truth. Believe in him as a sadhu. That`s okay, believing is good, like you say ... |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 27, 2008 06:17
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hey , Anyone can assume anyhting about any person.
So she can assume watever, and so can we
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