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why goa gil ?
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 11:49
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On 2008-11-22 06:53, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2008-11-21 17:29, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
you all seem to concentrate on your own believes and culture and dont even want to hear the visions of others. |
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Actually it seems that you are concentrating on your own vision of what a sadhu might be, and ignoring the beliefs and culture of the country where sadhus actually come from.
I have seen a photo of my friend Alex sat at a fire with Hands-Up Baba at the Kumbh back in 1999 (Haridwar?), does that make him a sadhu too? BTW I like Gil's shades in that pic, I see he's 'renounced' having to squint in the sun 
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this is ridiculous, you still dont get the point. this what i posted was not a picture where goa gil just went to a holy man and sat there to make a nice picture, like all the rest of the tourists do!!!!!!!!!!!! this is a picture that shows the holy man of india coming to the place of goagil and baba rampuri, the holy man went to their fire and sat there which is traditionally a very special thing and means respect!!! both foreigners are among the naga babas. and they are not just among them, like any other of us has been, just visiting. THEY ARE THERE PART OF THEM!!! this is why i asked 2 million times who has been to kulbha mela, who has seen the core of it, who has been there for more than a few days to witness the spectacular. i do respect the holy man of india and its culture, and if i see that this same holy man respect people like baba rampuri or goagil, this has to mean something!!!!! it is the people here in this small tiny ridiculous discussion that dont respect that. the sadhus themselves accept it. you dont get it do you???????????????
this one sadhu with the hand, this is really not a joke to hold your hand like that for years, day and night, cause you want to give your respect to the gods by doing that. he has incredible energy, and sorry but in india as a culture it is him who i ve seen, and not the freaks from this discussion, so it is mostly people like HIM where i take my knowledge and respect towards this culture. it is not the freaks from here that i ve never even seen.
i am glad to hear that he never took money for playing in goa. didnt know that. it is a nice thing. as far as the playing iis concerned, i know at least the case where he got his cables cut by fundamentalists like the people here in the discussion.
p.s. and it is simply ridiculous to say that he is not different from any of the other indians that go to take the holy bad. it is simply nonsense. absolutely.
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OH REALLY ?
Started Topics :
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73
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 13:32
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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Posted : Nov 22, 2008 14:25
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Ah... sorry MTWZ, I must have misunderstood you. I thought that when you said:
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On 2008-11-21 17:29, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
as far as i notice this is the dunni of baba rampuri that is an american and dear friend of goa gil, and is the first foreigner to be initiated as a naga baba officially.
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...that you meant it was only the fire of baba Rampuri, not Gil (because that's what you actually wrote). And you say there that you're not even sure whose fire it was ('as far as I notice [know]'). So how can this photo prove anything at all if we don't know for sure the facts around it?
You seem to have so much of yourself bound up in the idea that Gil is a sadhu. This is understandable; from the photos OH REALLY? has posted, and from what you have written, it is obvious that you are very interested in Indian spirituality and as a Western woman I'm sure the idea of a Western sadhu validates the place you feel you have in Hundu tradition. However I'm sure that - as someone who has spent much more time immersed in the spiritual traditions of India than even you have - Gil himself would say that he is not a sadhu. But that is just my opinion and in the end it is only his word which can end this discussion, so please... you seem to be his friend, devotee, student, unofficial advocate, whatever... and if not, you definitely have more contact with him than I do... please, ask Gil to give a statement saying whether he considers himself to be a real sadhu or not. This is the only thing that matters; in the end all we have are our opinions and without a first-hand explanation of the facts from the man himself, our opinions are worthless.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 15:56
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no again missunderstanding. may be it would be nice to sit with you all in a fireplace and talk about it rather than writing to empty monitors. but whatever, you did not understand me. i know this is the fire of baba rampuri that is the american naga baba to be first initiated among the sadhus. it is the very same fire where we spent our time too. goa gil or mangalanand giri belongs to another lineage, but was sitting there at the time. anyway the point is that you have simple logic to follow: this sadhu with the hand is a holy man of india, more holy than anyone here is. and i know this is not his dhuni, cause he was on the oposite site of the street, right in front of the place where we have been. and he came to this dhuni to sit there, so if all of the nonsense that has been written here was right ( about foreigners never been sadhus, and all other stuff) , this holy man would never sit there. the sitting itself means acceptance and respect towards baba rampuri ( who is not even present on the picture at that time) and towards goa gil. and both of them are hippies from the early days of goa, both dont live according to the definitions stated here....
but ok. i dont see goa gil as often. i mentioned that this year i didnt even have a goa gil experience. and i dont know when i will see him to ask him that. but i will consider writing to him. anyway he has seen the website and the video and i guess he could correct it. anyway. this discussion was intense in the last week and besides getting attacked every day 5 times in the last week, i also notices another thing. i dont want to belong to the vision ot the trance culture nowadays that most of you have. never liked the definitions and the denying of things by means of no experience.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 16:12
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Is it possible for the sadhu with the hand to respect someone without thinking they are a sadhu? If the sahdu with the hand sits with you, does that mean you are a sadhu? This is what your words imply.
Please remember that forums are NOT the 'trance culture'. The trance culture happens on the dancefloor, at parties and festivals... we share ideas and sounds here; we do not live here. The internet is not the real world of face-to-face human interaction...
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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KundaliniRising
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
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163
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 16:30
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On 2008-11-21 22:50, mk47 wrote:
hey , sorry for the off topic .. but does anyone know why he hasn't played in Goa for so long ? .. im not sure , but .. 2002 .. was it ? last party in goa ?
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The Last i spoken to him was in Jan 2006, and thats when he told me that his house in Goa was robbed in his absence, including all his dats and equipments. |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 19:06
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On 2008-11-22 16:12, Colin OOOD wrote:
Is it possible for the sadhu with the hand to respect someone without thinking they are a sadhu? If the sahdu with the hand sits with you, does that mean you are a sadhu? This is what your words imply.
Please remember that forums are NOT the 'trance culture'. The trance culture happens on the dancefloor, at parties and festivals... we share ideas and sounds here; we do not live here. The internet is not the real world of face-to-face human interaction...
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yes, i see your point but you miss to notice the circumstance under which it happens. you have to imagine a street there on this very special happening , the kumbha mela, a street of fires. dhunis of different saddhu lineages. for instance i could never go there and put a fire, they will immediately put me away cause it is a sacred place. it is the place where the naga babas are. most indian from simple villages would never even dare to walk there. and some of them come and really treat the babas like a messanger from god. you see? it is a very sacred thing for the indians. so this is a street where the naga babas stay. dont forget, they are the first to go into the holy water before all other millions. they are really really really considered sacred, even if some guy from the forum tells you that he does not know what is a naga baba and what is the difference with a sadhu.
so it doesnt happen just like that, it happens on a street where you have a foreigner dhuni of a naga baba that is not born in india. so i guess that if this one with the hand comes there , then it means that he respects the lineage being taken by a foreigner. and besides you have to imagine a very official lineage of people, very hierarchical. you have higher babas and then higher and higher. it is like a pyramid. everything official, even if some freak from the forum tells you that there is no such thing as official initiation. of course there is. and every single thing is being respected...may be i should write a second story of that.....
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 20:39
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I find it mildly offensive that both Gil and Rampuri, are sitting around this fire with glasses on. It doesn't prove anything first of all, I could have a photo taken of myself with the Pope and his cardinals, doesn't mean I'm highup in the Catholic order. As for the other Sadhus who have joined them, maybe they do not discriminate, to them all is ONE...and for them it's probably a novelty to see white people dressed up as they so  I also find it mildly offensive that Rampuri has been initiated. I have it in my mind now to ask the head of the Juna Akhada what the hell they were thinking?? And if this guy is a serious baba he should respectfully take of those sunglasses while sitting at a dhuni. His website is another bone of contention with me. This whole idea of new age sadhus with websites is just in total conflict with what it should be. This photo session is bloody cheesy, I hope you understand it's not proving anything except the degradation of what used to be a very serious aspect of Hinduism. **************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Nov 22, 2008 22:37
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Quote: "I also find it mildly offensive that Rampuri has been initiated. I have it in my mind now to ask the head of the Juna Akhada what the hell they were thinking??"
Well ok, then ask the head of the Juna Akhara
But before that dont forget to briefly read his book Baba. There he explains a lot about his past: how he came to Goa in the early hippie times, how he got to the Babas and how the higher baba from his lineage saw in the Akasha that he must initiate a foreigner ( + particular time of coming of this foreigner in akasha).
Quote: "It doesn't prove anything first of all, I could have a photo taken of myself with the Pope and his cardinals, doesn't mean I'm highup in the Catholic order."
The point is that you canot sit with the cardinals in their special sacred places, because no one would ever let you. Exactly the same with the naga babas. They dont just let you build your camp there, build your altar, build a kitchen place at the back and so on. So if you ever take a photo together with the cardinals of the pope in their special sacred meetings, then i will consider thinking what you have been through.
Quote: "I hope you understand it's not proving anything except the degradation of what used to be a very serious aspect of Hinduism."
Well this was the other thing that i mentioned already. Then it is degradaded. Lots of the baba had glasses there. Some had even mobiles. But i can get also quite critical towards any religion form, which is actually the point why i dont fit to any religion. i dont fit to its definitions. That is why on the Kumbh i did not hold to the pyramid of higher and highest gurus. For me Mangalanand Giri was the special one there even if not the highest highups of the order. And i will never ever forget this experience that i had during the procession when we went to the holy water. There i understood the real meaning of the music that Goa Gil plays, his style, the intensity, the meaning of all that. The frequence.
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 00:04
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Yes Tina...many babas have mobiles, laptops and even managers...and all of this is horrible. It is the new-age form of religion and I would attack anyone of those "spiritual" babas as well...every sadhu or baba or spiritual person has to respect a Dhuni. They respect the holy fire, they will not deny an audience with the fire whether it belongs to you, me or Rampuri. Just because a bunch of Sadhus are sitting around this particular Dhuni does not validate anything. It is merely a form of respect. It is interesting however to note from the photos the difference in appearance between the Indian Sadhus and Gil and Rampuri. The Indian ones look a little more weathered, dirty.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Squee.Isme
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
252
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 01:09
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On 2008-11-21 17:29, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
as far as the playing iis concerned, i know at least the case where he got his cables cut by fundamentalists like the people here in the discussion.
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oh goodness, moki, this is like george bush trance politics you are spewing here. you are with us or against us? if we don't agree with you than we are fundamentalist cable-cutters? are we hiding weapons of mass-tranceduction?
k'mon, lets be serious, stop taking discussion so personally |
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OH REALLY ?
Started Topics :
0
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73
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 01:44
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On 2008-11-22 20:39, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
I find it mildly offensive that both Gil and Rampuri, are sitting around this fire with glasses on. It doesn't prove anything first of all, I could have a photo taken of myself with the Pope and his cardinals, doesn't mean I'm highup in the Catholic order. As for the other Sadhus who have joined them, maybe they do not discriminate, to them all is ONE...and for them it's probably a novelty to see white people dressed up as they so I also find it mildly offensive that Rampuri has been initiated. I have it in my mind now to ask the head of the Juna Akhada what the hell they were thinking?? And if this guy is a serious baba he should respectfully take of those sunglasses while sitting at a dhuni. His website is another bone of contention with me. This whole idea of new age sadhus with websites is just in total conflict with what it should be. This photo session is bloody cheesy, I hope you understand it's not proving anything except the degradation of what used to be a very serious aspect of Hinduism.
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are u even serious ? u find it mildly offensive , still even if its mild u find it offensive that they have the sunglasses on ?
this is like u are making a mountain out of the mole . if u see carefully in this pic they are just sitting around the dhooni , and if little or any commom sense prevails ( specially for people who know abt hindu culture )one can see that the mantra's and the prayers have been done and they are just chilling out.
http://www.slide.com/s/pDwvj-gd2T-L_hUZIPtJbd4bpfeo4KAM?dir=1
This is probably the time when they were doin prayers. i think tina should have taken some more pics when Gil and Rampuri were not wearing sunglasses.actually this is getting too ridiculous the way people are trying to find out little flaws .
Fria, u are saying the indian baba's look more weathered and dirty , its very true , but i am sure u also know that 90% of them look weathered and dirty , and as u are an indian u must also be aware that the other 10% are always clean and hygienic , if u dont know abt this then its quite a pity , take Baba Ramdev for example ( the yogaguru ) who is one of main faces of india for yoga n meditation n medicine to the world , he travels in mercedes and honda accord's.. and one of his last sessions took places on a high end cruise liner .
and there are number of them Baba's out there who are clean and hygienic n filthy rich .
also its hard to understand ur disappointment , at Baba Rampuri being initiated , why is that so ? people who want to get converted into christians from hindus are often baptized so why is there an issue with u about Rampuri getting initiated ? ur acting way too weird now .
Even you are not a hindu though i respect ur knowledge about this culture , u still belong to a different community ( unless u got converted ), so dont pretend to be like a hindu sadhvi when u are not .
One more important thing about our culture is Hinduism is a religion with many beliefs and practices, so offering a comparison of Christianity and Hinduism is challenging. It would be doing Hinduism an injustice to reduce its theology and philosophies to a scope that would be required to truly offer a comparison with Christianity. However, there are some tenets to Hinduism that are universal to all Hindus.
The first difference between Hinduism and Christianity is that Hinduism embraces Christianity as a valid religion whereas the Bible does not. Hinduism is a religion that advocates tolerance. It teaches that all religions are different paths leading to one goal; all religions are different means to one end. Hinduism is not exclusive and accepts all religions as valid. Christianity, however, teaches that Christ is the only way to God. John 14:6 says, "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 02:17
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oh really is moki's imaginary pimp.
Speak for urselves , dont allign like a bunch of losing politicians.
This topic is over. and hope so is the gimmick of calling themselves sadhu . ( and his froupies )
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OH REALLY ?
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73
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 03:04
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axis ,try n use better language or the way u put up ur c grade phrases
am your pimp , ok axis ?
axis is my s.ut
this topic is over for u , and u are old now . no body wants to h>mp u . so dont come here again .
and FYI - I Speak This For Myself n Not for Moki or anyone else
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Nov 23, 2008 07:17
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k then 2006 it was , no need to be aggressive there oh really , twas just a query .. `baba ramdev` mr moki , has categorically stated many a time that he is not a `sadhu/guru/holy man` he is a yogi , conducts yoga sessions and is into herbal ayurvedic medicine etc , about a sadhu , as i said before .. it is not a degree course that u get a certificate for and get on with ur life , wich in dj goagils case means playing music at trance parties .. its all very well to mix psy trance scene with hindu mysticits and holy men etc , but at the end of the day .. its 2 completely different things .. one one hand is people partying off their tits on drugs , dancing and having a good time in general .. on the other is the way more serious side of self realization , renunciation and striving for nirvana / moksha / enlightenment .. very different my friend .. a page back u were trying to tell us of the 4 stages of life , were u not ? .. well then , go thru it again , and please point how dj goagil fits onto the category of `sadhu` as is said there , lets do it and put an end to this , u don't take our word , fine .. and we don't take urs , fine .. lets open the books and see what the real definition of sadhu really is , according to our holy scriptures .. the 4th stage eh ? .. where u leave family , work , friends .. ur whole life behind , and strive only for moksha .. is dj goagil there ? is that what he does ? has he truly left the whole world .. his work , family , friends ... to attain enlightenment ?
..and i know the sadhus have their own banging on drums , singing , meditating and smoking pot sessions , but this aint it .. http://www.goagil.com/photogallery/mumbai2008/DSC03663
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