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Why don't I use a limiter?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 00:45
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Quote:
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On 2012-02-09 23:17, PoM wrote:
for tight punchy modern sound
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that often tired the ears, make music lifless and sound sterile..but that today sound and what the guys want so.. that what cut on their latptop and other crappy speakers that can t repoduce dynamic anyway..if everyone had still quality hifi at home sound would have probably lot more dynamic..but if you check around you? who have good listening enveironnement, personaly i know no one, while 10 or 15 years ago we were a lot more with decent amp and hifi spkears on what the today sound can have no balls ,no dynamic ,flat.. in your face compressed sound wihtout falling into the extreme and sound with more dynamic there is lot of option between both that can sound good too..that look like good compromise.
what is strange is our music is not made to be played on small speaker.. a huge and high quality production at - 12 rms or even less on pa might make a breakdown when the kick drop like a bomb on 40kw ... but no one will mix your tune |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 01:01
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people tend to destroy there ability of fidelic listening with listening to bad encoded mp3s as well..
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Ricciardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 01:07
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its quite simple...
the best you want on a limiter its his transparency, you do not want to maximize the sound only, you want to avoid peaks, thats also obviously why they are called limiters
i also read here some people who say to avoid compressors, because they dont let your sound breath, well... it the depends the way you use them, there are many tricks
you use them to change dinamics on a sound
imagine you want a flute to sound harder like a lead, if you use a compressor properly you can give the flute an impressive atack and make the ritm more rich
this is actualy the essence of compressors, they enhance ritm... they can help you to mix also, but where they are really usefull is changing dinamics in a way that you improve the track ritm, its only a matter of you put the right setup and it will be ok
people should be polite to not close possibilities and be purist about something just because they ear it all the time...
"limiters only destroy" "avoid compressors" bla bla bla
art is art, this tools have their own paper on it, they do what they are intend to do... then its a matter of how the artist manage them
there is no rules or scrip about using them properly, the way it sound better to you or most of people will be a good choice
experiment... |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 01:19
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i think the whole point is clear now and everything starts to get repeated slowly..
btw, whats up with that golem guy? is he still around or are any questions left?
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 04:59
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Still here.
A lot of OT it seems  , anyway, thanks all for answers, but still I really don't understand it.
What is the advantage of removing peaks per channel as you can do that in the master? If you remove peaks in every channel and then again in master is it likely to get even louder signal (transparently)..?
Then if you have an audible peak (e.g. resonant filter sweeps trough a region with lot of energy), isn't it better aproach to control levels by automation?
For alternating normal snare/kick activity and snare/kick rolls automation would be too much work and adjusting note volumes also very much work so in such situation it would make sense to be lazy and use a limiter (with the expense of sound quality of course in that part).
About Wizack Twizacks comment, well distortion also reduces dynamics so if you get the reduction from there you need compressor much more rarely. A lot of the sounds I use, snares, etc.. you just don't hear the tails very well in the mix unless you compress, or that is my opinion. Or sorry maybe I will corrent my terminology, reduce dynamics (with compressor, tape saturation, distortion, whatever).
As I have understood, you get the best quality sound by using compressors/saturators to control dynamics and using only one limiter (in master for removing transparent peaks).
Maybe I should reformulate my question, what is the use of having many transparent limiters in a signal chain?
Something I also don't understand is that I know that a lot of mastering engineers use many limiters in a row in a signal chain and it would be really interesting to know in the detail how they differ.
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreaml4nd
http://www.mixcloud.com/aegonox-peter-pan |
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PoM
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 05:23
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one of the avantage is that you don t need to use agressive setting and light limiting catching a peak here and there is totally transparent on most sounds so it can t hurt anyway ... it can make your comps more stable on buss just as a expample of how it could help...
at mastering it s agressive setting that are used, that what bring the most nasty distortion .
including loudness in mixing stage you really have to know what you re doing and already make great mix wihtout even taking care about loudness...but in theory it will give you the cleanest well balanced sound as you have control on everything, compared to a stereo file at mastering. it also dont let much room for mastering engeinners to change your sound...thats technics for mixers with experience,some even do it n purpose to not get their sound fucked up by mastering engeinners they dont trust.
personaly i dont use much limiters lately ,i try them sometimes on some sounds, it can be just the ticket... i use more other tools like saturator/distortion a lot that are kind of limiters too |
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PoM
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 05:54
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i posted a sample with massive processed into the culture vulture some moth ago,i wish i still have it to post it right there..that was heavy limiting with saturation and it was sounding great, i m sure it s possible to get close with a limiter and a saturator |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 06:17
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by the way , you take 2 tracks mastered at same loudness , the one that have been more compressed at mixing stage could be the one that sound the less squashed in the end...
there is no much point avoiding compression for keeping more dynamic if it s for endeing with something very loud and flat like a pancacke |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 08:57
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About limiter if you work right you dont need , In 14 years of produce i use it 2-3-4-5 times , Max , Not more .
About compressors , You call it 'Tight sound' ? This is not tight sound This is 'Skinny sound' (All those fullon and toy dark around) , Naked , Dry , No real power , Color or cinematic feeling , So here come the compressor .. (And with an right work - Together with the eq You can get the best results) .
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Wizack Twizack
Wizack Twizack
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 09:24
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 09:45
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Hey little boy .. Im not the issue of this topic .
If you may have some knowledge to share will be lovely !
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 13:00
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A limiter is a compressor lol
Blah blah blah thin sound
Sometimes i want to squish only one channel  because all the rest sounds allright.
Limiter is awesome -> learn it -> use it wisely
Cause all the babies are gonna cry when you play the mix dry and say : " oh this is good but not sounds pro yet because its dry without limiter."
Stick a limiter in the face! Everybody will go: "Wow!" And its true ... Yeaaaah !!!! Squish and pump up!!!!!!!!!
What are you making ethnic music ?
You need to make your frequencies scream ROAAAR!!!Loudness war!!! Make stuff louder !!!
I'm sometimes just hate when something is too quite and it is max volume lol ::D
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 14:10
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A limiter is just a compressor with infinite ratio and 0ms attack. Basicly, it's just a less tweakable compressor. Yes you can use it in mixing but why not try using a compressor with high ratio and low attack first, tweak it, till you find the right spot?
Also, you should consider that the point of mixing is not making it louder, it's tightning it up and balance everything. The mastering compressors/limiters are what's responsible for getting you track loud but that's only after you have a perfect mix.
Pyrex :: Traveling without moving
www.myspace.com/pyrexperience |
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daark
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 15:15
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So if you're using a compressor with squishy settings why not to use a limiter ?
Same thing. Its legit.
Anyway i don't have any rules i follow i just try to listen sometimes i turn on/off effects and most my tracks are compressor free anyway.
This issue is way over talked anyway.
Its a limiter why you don't talk as much about chorus?
Soooo back to topic i wish to say that everything you add can either make it awesome or make it shit. Not just the limiter does that. All possible insert FX are audio destruction units.
As for the mixing stage limiting its good just need to watch for the balance between the sounds
Now try to listen to my poor production tracks and put a finger on the limiter plz . I bet you can't.
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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e-motion
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Posted : Feb 10, 2012 16:12
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You can use a limiter, but you loose the attack knob and ratio tweaking... Yes it sounds the same on this settings, but it's less tweakable to other settings. Pyrex :: Traveling without moving
www.myspace.com/pyrexperience |
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