JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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Posted : May 25, 2010 17:00
Quote:
On 2010-05-25 16:34, TranceVisuals wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-25 14:57, Login wrote:
all we be much easier if it was speaken on technical terms setting ideologies apart.
GENERAL SEMANTICS FTW!!!!!
Or the more simplified version by Robert Anton Wilson, "Maybe Logic"...
--There is nothing wrong with the world, we are merely having a very strange conversation.
what is ideology really?
i find this word non useful at all i must say. ideologies of any type, are found to set some kind of borders on the features of a belief on the way things work or whatever, it is a bit restrictive by nature isn't it?
what matters is not the name of what we talk about, it's what we say actually
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 25, 2010 19:31
^
You are right. But HOW we say it will depend on one's ideology. That's what determines whether somebody is called "a terrorist" or a "freedom fighter", "a crook" or "a financial innovator", "a dictator" or "a strong leader", "a dimwit" or "one with a folksy appeal". We'd like to think that we can put ideology aside and say it like it is. But can we really? What about a freedom fighter who is a terrorist? What about a strong leader who is a dictator. And what about a dimwit who actually does have a folksy appeal?
It’s very difficult to make it all academically sterile and discuss everything in technical terms. In the situation that you mentioned, for example, there is always a question of why your country is where it is now. Is it because the government cared so much about its people’s welfare that it overextended itself in debt? Or is it because a lot of that borrowed money ended up in somebody’s pockets? Or could the same politician care about his people and his pocket at the same time? Who is going to answer these questions truthfully to you? If you think I am just babbling to irritate you, consider how many millionaires were born amid Russia’s 1998 default, how many American pockets got fat during both 2000 and 2007 busts. We’ll never get to the bottom of it and we’ll always have to try and look through the ideological smoke screen. It’s always there.
P.S. Case in point: If you look up information on the goings-on in Western Ukraine in the 1940s, the picture you’ll get will most likely depend on the language of the article. In Ukrainian, you’ll get stories of heroic struggles against both empires, leaders getting persecuted by Gestapo and KGB alike, while smuggling Jewish children to remote monasteries for protection etc. In Russian, you’ll get stories of monstrous massacres carried out by Wehrmacht’s Nachtigall Battalion and later by the SS-Galizien Division (both manned mostly by Ukrainians). In English, you’ll see an attempt to present a rounded picture, although it’s closer to the Ukrainian side (not surprisingly). I am talking about exact same articles on Wikipedia – just different languages! Now, let’s say we attempt to look past ideologies and discuss all this “in technical terms”. Do you really think somebody who lost all his family in the 1941 Lviv massacre will be able to be cold and academic about it?
I know it was an alien example. Try and do the same experiment for the Greek National Liberation Front. I am pretty sure you’ll get similarly disparate results.
Login
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 26, 2010 07:48
This arises the problem that if every epistemology represents some kind of ideology, at some extent it does. We are in a trap...
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
suhmus
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3
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213
Posted : May 28, 2010 12:17
to party
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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772
Posted : May 28, 2010 13:09
yep yep yep!
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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772
Posted : Jun 2, 2010 14:12
you see, we like to party yes. i don't see many of us wanna party the last two days, do you?
this is why you should change the name of this forum. this is NOT an internationall forrum, is an israeli forum that people who like trance, part1icipate. i really don't feel like spreading p.l.u.r here anymore since you keep it that way.
WE DON'T LIKE ISRATRANCE AS NAME OF THIS FORUM.
we don't like israel, as a name, to be part of our community!!
if you consider this place YOURS, explain it openly!
again, the problem is not the israelis in here, what ruins the vibe here is the name.
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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772
Posted : Jun 2, 2010 14:26
for those who where in trance the last days.. i post this to explain why the name of the forum should be changed, immedietly
exotic
IsraTrance Full Member
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200
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5057
Posted : Jun 2, 2010 15:31
Yeah just name it indo-trance. problem solved. missing plug-in
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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12
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1659
Posted : Jun 2, 2010 17:46
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 14:12, JohnTaramas wrote:
this is NOT an international forum, is an Israeli forum that people who like trance, participate.
It is an international forum. And it is founded, owned (and operated, I presume) by Israelis.
Quote:
again, the problem is not the israelis in here, what ruins the vibe here is the name.
You know, I actually understand what Shahar wrote about the site’s name. With so much crap going on in Israel, IsraTrance was (and is) a great example of something good, peaceful and creative coming out of that country. For the last two days, I had Ofra Haza and Ishtar playing on my computer for hours. Both are Israel’s gifts of beauty (both musical and physical) to the world. Ishtar sings in 5 languages, including Arabic (which I suspect is her native tongue). True to her Andalusian heritage. So, like IsraTrance, she is both Israeli and international. Although her voice does not quite compare to Ofra’s, I tip my hat to her just for what her songs have done in bringing so many cultures together. And I do the same for founders of IsraTrance – for the same reason.
Having said that, I also think it’s time to consider some other name.
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 14:26, JohnTaramas wrote:
for those who where in trance the last days.. i post this to explain why the name of the forum should be changed, immedietly
Ugly stuff, no doubt. Oddly enough, I blame myself for this mess. Myself and 300 millions of my fellow citizens. But that’s a different topic altogether.
Anyway, back to the names. I am not a big fan of the MedvePut duo, but it does not translate into boycotting sites with “rus” in their names. I don’t see why my attitude should be any different for sites with “isra” in their names.
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
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100
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Posted : Jun 2, 2010 18:04
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 14:12, JohnTaramas wrote:
WE DON'T LIKE ISRATRANCE AS NAME OF THIS FORUM.
Who exactly are you speaking for John? Who is "we"?
What cramps my balls is not the name of the forum, it is having to read this kind of stuff in the trance section. If I want to see war and bloodshed I can turn on the tv.
Seems like a name change is inevitable sooner or later, but it would make me a little sad, I dont associate anything negative with the name "Isratrance".
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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12
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Posted : Jun 2, 2010 20:40
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 18:04, kazuku wrote:
If I want to see war and bloodshed I can turn on the tv.
Actually, local news can be as scary as international. It seems like every day somebody gets murdered in my God-forsaken city. And I don't live in Gaza.
Quote:
Seems like a name change is inevitable sooner or later, but it would make me a little sad, I dont associate anything negative with the name "Isratrance".
Once again, you expressed in two sentences what took me a novel to explain.
Anyway, I don't see what else is there to discuss in this thread, unless we discuss the ugly event itself - in which case this thread just does not belong in the trance forum. Either way you look at it, this topic overstayed its welcome, imho.
Hero #1
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 2, 2010 21:26
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 14:26, JohnTaramas wrote:
for those who where in trance the last days.. i post this to explain why the name of the forum should be changed, immedietly
Then stay out like your buddy gutter (Sorry, your alter ego i meant )
mica
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 03:34
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 21:26, Hero #1 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-02 14:26, JohnTaramas wrote:
for those who where in trance the last days.. i post this to explain why the name of the forum should be changed, immedietly
Then stay out like your buddy gutter (Sorry, your alter ego i meant )
I agree 200%
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 10:14
this is always so ridiculous with those political issues discussed on a trance level. why not take another trip, may be you then suddenly reopen your third eyes and get some parapsychological skills of telepathy and then just suddenly know more about world politics than others know after reading 50 or 100 books on these affairs? trancers are good in that - the short ways to enlightenment without any achievement of intelligence or spirit is exactly what tracners do best.
dont take me wrong, it is nice of you to be ridiculous. thanks for existing, i love you. otherwise we would have nothing to laugh about it early in the morning with the first cup of coffee.
it is strange - i never associated isratrance with the army of israel. i associate it to a couple of artists that have changed my life in a time when 99 percent of the users here did not know what is trance. i associate it with a very interesting and old culture and with a acouple of nice people i have met on different continents.
i find it strange to point the israel army as a reason why we dont like the name isratrance. why not immediately delete the country israel from all flyers where they play as well. after all, we are all fucking up to date and we all know what israel did last night and how wrong and inappropriate this was. we have all been there, seen it with our own eyes, right?
first of all, it always better to say I than to say WE. we dont like the name? i personally never cared about the name. there are so much moderators and contributors here who come from elsewhere. it is not centered around israel. and even if it is, well, do another website and center it around yourself, if you are so bothered with that.
i am not, because i dont care about countries and politics done and spoken by amateurs.
and i am actually far more bothered if someone steals a name like goa, states this culture for himself and makes a community out of it. goa is a a political state too.
whatever. even if they change it, it is not what ruins the community. it is this amateur way to discuss politics with generalizing about the government of a country and judging on the people who live in a country.
like for instance this week i read on some trance forums that israel is not allowed to have a country after what they did on gaza this week. fucking ridiculous i must say. eight year old kids would be better on discussing politics than trancers are. what about infrastructure, universities, cultural events.
i am happy to read here. because i at least know that i will not read political discussion written by absolute amateurs bored on their places of job which of course have nothing to do with politics. i will not read generalizing stuff about israelis and the army.
whatever. have a nice day.
mk47
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 10:18
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