JohnTaramas
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
772
Posted : May 3, 2010 14:41:09
The Isratrance Team says, "We are here because of this:
We are here because this music changed our lives, it has also changed the lives of all others we know that opened their minds to it- and that change is good. We want all people to have a chance for that change- so we are spreading the message!"
As music changed my life, other things changed also after that. I learned not to axcept everything someone tells me to without a second thought, question things that I find unreasonable and finaly share my thoughts about my life with all of you, here.
Is this a place to express all your feelings that come with music, before or after listening to it, or is there a kind of censorship on subjects that may occasionally include political views that come against the country of Israel, and if is forbidden talking about specific subjects that the owners here do not like, how can you call this freedom of speech?
I'm not talking about offensive attitude or offtopic posting, I speak about this question that there's in my mind for a while now.
Does this forum welcomes the freedom of speech and free spirit in general or is it only about freedom of pitch and concern about cd sales?
V3NOM
Inactive User
Started Topics :
131
Posts :
2234
Posted : May 3, 2010 15:18
free speech for the dumb!
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
772
Posted : May 3, 2010 15:26
do you like your sweet home monkey? do you? that's what i talk about.
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : May 3, 2010 15:41
cray3
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
Posts :
355
Posted : May 3, 2010 16:02
There are million other forums to discuss politics and diss israel to your hearts' content on the internet..lets keep isratrance only for music...rest can be discussed in other forums, not here.
why do you wanna discuss politics and conspiracy theories on a forum meant for music?
no offense to anyone,,,just my thoughts.
--------
</cray3>
Radio Schizoid
http://www.schizoid.in
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : May 3, 2010 16:30
I've found I have gotten away "talking about those supposedly taboo subjects" on isra, more often than I thought I would of....
I think the discussion really comes down to "money" fucking everything up. Sure it's a great "idea" but in practice it seems to f**k up and distort everything. Great as a notional accounting system, truly despicable when the "control and creation" of wealth is restricted to an "elite"....
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting.
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
772
Posted : May 3, 2010 16:42
Didn't say let's turn it to anti-israel forum or talk only about politics but since there are general discussions in here, these are subjects that do exist and are worth mentioning sometimes.
Seems quite odd to me, a forum called isratrance to have problem mentioning things about palestine and 'not having much problem' on talking for economic crisis in Europe for example. This I can tell from many deleted posts and topics that the word ''politics'' is used to lock them, but i haven't seen many topics refering to other countrie's politics, being locked or deleted.
The truth must be shown everywhere. This is not a forum to discuss politics but to me this is clear censorship.
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : May 3, 2010 17:13
It is a forum called isratrance so it should be about trance really. But you are pointing to an interesting subject. Talking about economic crisis and lots of other political subjects like conspiracy theories is allowed but talking about the israeli palistinian conflict isnt.. So the politics is a little distorted here.. Although i must say some other politic topics have also been deleted.
soundcloud.com/supergroover
Adigroovy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1647
Posted : May 3, 2010 17:35
well it should be music and all allround, but as you mentioned we have many discussions (intersting ones) about economics, politics in Europe / USA / Asia but when it comes to Israel- Palestinian thing, then is the politics dangerous, i would say just be more consequent, and don't allow any talks on politcs or allow all always when people are respecting eachother.
to use your head you have to go out of your mind
Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : May 3, 2010 18:34
Quote:
What We Are Here For
Understand what we are here for, and what we are not here for. As "rave culture", we are NOT here to make everybody like us. We are NOT here to change the world's perceptions about anything. We are NOT here to make raving a safe, fun, joyous time for all peoples everywhere and all walks of life, saturating it to the point where it becomes barely more interesting than a Family Circus comic.
We are here to have fun. In whatever fucking way we choose. That includes drugs. That includes music. That includes dancing. That includes sex and nudity. That includes performance art and poetic terrorism and whatever else our fucked up minds can think of. We let nothing be true, and everything be permissable. If it is different, we embrace it. If it is avant-garde, we welcome it. If it is safe and boring, we ignore it.
This is a culture of hedonism. It is a culture of Bachanalian tendancies. It is a culture of reckless abandonmnent, of personal debauchery, of maximizing Temporary Autonomous Zones by whatever means necessary. A culture where the adventurous spirit is not a means to furthering some stupid cause or worldview, but a selfish, risque end in itself.
The death of rave comes not with petty legalization, which has as much chance of stopping the scene at large as a spoon has of emptying the ocean, but with commercialization and the ongoing threat of turning raves into the highschool dance party, with a punchbowl and tacky decorations and parental supervision. To remove the danger element, making the scene a rigid, confining, suffocating affair, where free expression is dulled and watered down so as to be easily digestible and palatable for mass consumption, is the real enemy.
That is what is wrong. Diluting the rave into a safe, boring, non-offensive nicey-nice "dance party" for the sake of society's approval. That makes it not even a rave. And it's disruptive to the party ethic.
Again: we are not here to "spread awareness". We are not here to put up a spectacular public image by telling law enforcement how kind and super we all are, and by dispelling misconceptions in the papers about our deeds (when they're right 90% of the time anyway). We are not in the feel-good role of coddling people by inviting them to raves to show them how safe and fun and happy and risk-free they are. Raves are not daycare centres. Raves are not highschool gymnasiums. Raves are not bars or clubs. Raves are not dance balls or charity auctions or concerts or block parties or neighbourhood barbecues or campaign rallies or protests.
They are raves. Pirate Utopias, existing for so long as is needed, with conscious negligence of the evils of social conformity. Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. In perhaps a purer sense: a celebration of victimless crimes.
To even suggest that they are anything else is antithetical to what rave is all about.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : May 3, 2010 18:50
1) The site is called Isratrance, not world/globe/whatever/trance
2) The rules say no politics.
So, imho, it would be stupid to sign up and start dissing Israel's foreign policies, innit... probably as stupid as believing all Israelis are war-monging twats that kill Palestinian babies.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1123
Posted : May 3, 2010 19:08
I think we have a fair ammount of freedom here, we can be happy to have a strong community to discuss many topics directly and indirectly related to psytrance and beyond.
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : May 3, 2010 19:13
John, I think you are making a very common mistake about the freedom of speech. It's a principle that applies to governments, not to private entities. If I invite you to my home, your freedom of speech ends the moment I get offended and kick you out. The Palestinian issue is a horrible tragedy. And people need to be aware of it and discuss it. But they don't have to do it on an Israeli forum dedicated to an international music movement. Otherwise, it would be the same as coming to somebody's house for dinner and shitting on their carpet.
And even if we forget about being nice to the hosts - we do not come here for political discussions. We come to discuss music. Otherwise, it becomes counterproductive. If you discuss psy trance in America - there is no need to bring up the genocide of natives or propose that it should be called "United States of the Middle Third of North America". What purpose does it serve? Does it add anything to the discussion? Does it shed any light at the current dynamics of the Scene in the US? No. The only thing it does is upset a few Americans and give a few anti-American minded people a minute of joy.
Another thing that crossed my mind is that the hosts simply protect themselves against legal troubles. Start a Palestinian thread on this server and the next thing you know you are talking to men in suits about some "pro-terrorist statements". It may be some orthodox lawyers or it may be whatever Israel has for KGB - could be unpleasant either way. If this is not an issue, then there could be a compromise in the form of a separate political forum (in the "Offtopic" section). If it is an issue - are you willing to risk shutting this site down?
JohnTaramas
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
772
Posted : May 3, 2010 19:27
read the posts before replying, it helps understand the discussion better, saves time I mean.
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : May 3, 2010 19:53
I've been posting on this site for like 6-7 years, there are a few issues that simply don't fall well with the mods. its a trance site and its orientation concerning politics and the Palestinian problem, has been made clear (in case you did not get what the Isra, in Isratrance, means).
So in that aspect there is no freedom of speech, which I do not mind, cause I don't come on here to speak about the illegal invasion and the killing of innocent Palestinians.
Generally this is the most ill moderated music site I have ever come across, but the "production forum" is interesting, there are a lot of funny threads to kill time in "general", hence my large post count.
I also know that bitching about it won't help, I have "retired" from the site back in the day, due to arguing with moderators. Then I signed up again, not because moderators are any better/changed, but because I just wanted to post in the production forum.
So I have been long enough and seen enough to know what goes on here, yet, I choose to participate and just ignore the mods. I am not interested in changing their ill-informed minds about things we disagree on, neither do I get too bothered when they lock threads for God knows what reason...its just Isratrance mods, anyone who has been around long enough, knows what they are like.
