| Author
|
Who's Your Favorite US TWISTED(dark) Artist?
|
BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : May 3, 2005 20:15
|
Quote:
|
This sounds like a very Indiana Jones understanding of the Black mother…(which was a gross misrepresentation of her)
Darkness or Kali is NOT about mental torture, Kali is the formless and serene nature of darkness Jai Kali Ma!!!
|
|
I don't know a lot about Hindu philosophy,
but I have been to Kalighat (where she lives?) and seen the rotting dead bodies, snarling rabid dogs, the black stinking river, toothless aghorii babas, diseased hookers, the goat sacrifices, impoverished untouchables gnawing on the raw bones and meat, and screaming/weeping families walking through the pools of blood in the temple to make their offerings to Her...
It wasn't a "bad" experience, but it seemed most harsh & overwhelming - and a lot like the feeling I get when they overplay the Russian psycho music.
Indiana Jones or no, from my perspective Kali is quite the hell-raiser & I associate her energy with "evil trance", as do many fans and producers. It's vibe that I "fear" (as in respect), but don't like to frequently provoke, invoke or celebrate.
peace... |
|
|
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : May 3, 2005 21:53
|
It is not evil trance. It is all the biggest joke of all on those who have weak minds. Nothing is what it seems. There is not a real threat, there is no evil. Why are we so condition to perceive evil in certain ways. If you think a russian track is evil, wait a couple of years when the real evil rises and the sound of bones crushing, burned flesh, screams of suffering, and the smell of death fills the air... as hope begins to slowly dissipates in the fog of war. And this will be just the lesser evil of all  What am I saying it is already happening now. There is real evil out there I can sense it and it is not in our culture... we just want to dance!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : May 3, 2005 22:42
|
what would then be the proper description for 158 bpm trance where the main sounds are exceprts from horror movies, and the sounds of death and murder
At first it was hard, but then other variations of that came to be
Then it was dark (i feel this fits best, as it describes when this style of music should be played)
then with the advent of MOE, and the fact that evil is in the name, i think it became (at least in North American trance lingo) Evil
I know Suria tried called Dark trance Neuro trance...
How about Hyper spatial disconnected resonance trance ???
on a different but related tangent
This on going debate light vs dark, fluffy vs evil draws alot of paralells to the US jungle scene in the lates 90s.
At first it was just jungle and drum n bass, then Jump up hit the scene and it exploded. Something that was easier for the masses to listen to and enjoy. Then as the counterbalance to that, Tech step and dark side came into play.Something more underground to keep the newbies out. Jungle was divied for years untill the dark side won and drove most of those except for the dark purists, elitists out..
Where is Jungle at today ? hmmmm anybody ???
|
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : May 4, 2005 00:07
|
1) fritos are an excellent source of samples. Stale or not.
2) well produced music on a properly tuned sound system with sufficient amplifier headroom to not distort, providing it does not exceed say 130-140 db, should not cause any pain whatsoever to anyone barring psychological trauma from conditioning we cannot comment upon here. (assuming no foreknowledge of the persons condition...)
3) i don't desire pain or annoying music. I really like the new music I made for my new album- "vectorSelector" by oCeLoT- i hope you will too.
4) anyone who has ridden a fast motorcycle can tell you that raw acceleration is only one part of it- you need to be able to turn and stop accurately.
raw power uncontrolled is not very sexy.
when all the forces of the universe are unleashed in music i want to hear an elegant sense of control and taste- a management of some sorts...
with this in mind I think we can pretty much dismiss the "light vs dark" mentality as silly, childish, and otherwise inaccurate.
there are many criteria for dividing music.
I understand that humans are "homo categorus"
however, dark vs light are no longer meaningful categories for music, i feel.
hard vs soft... welll now....
|
|
|
|
Kalima
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
82
Posted : May 4, 2005 00:28
|
On 2005-05-03 20:15, BrettFromTibet wrote:
Quote:
|
I don't know a lot about Hindu philosophy,
but I have been to Kalighat (where she lives?) and seen the rotting dead bodies, snarling rabid dogs, the black stinking river, toothless aghorii babas, diseased hookers, the goat sacrifices, impoverished untouchables gnawing on the raw bones and meat, and screaming/weeping families walking through the pools of blood in the temple to make their offerings to Her...
|
|
I do understand that what you saw at Kalighat may have been disturbing, and I also know that this is the most popular understanding of Kali. However the rituals that you describe are manifestations of Aghori and Tantric interpretations of Kali (darkness) which are extreme in their philosophy. All dichotomies break down here; the good-evil, sacred-profane and even mind-body merge into one. Everything, not just Kali is interpreted in an extremely dissolving perspective. For these babas it is beyond the social rules that we are still subject to. Hence these practices cannot be judged from a simplistic good versus evil perspective. And I’m happy that you say it was not a “bad” experience…..disturbing for sure but not bad.
Hence what happens at Kalighat cannot and should not be ascribed to trance culture since people do not share this Aghori/Tantric point of view/understanding. So do not fear any evil vibe from dark trance lovers we just like to dance to darker tunes that appease us and our favorite demons. After all it takes all kinds to make up a jungle.
Bholenath!!
--------------------
If you want a taste of religion, lick a witch!
|
|
|
|
ohmy
Fractal Cowboys
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
285
Posted : May 4, 2005 00:31
|
ok, i don't know much, but I was understanding Kali to be the goddess that was called to eradicate evil that is so powerful that none of the other gods or goddesses could handle it. She is like the complete bad ass who has the final word. I don't know much though.
I love Fast music. but, the only horror movie samples I have heard and liked are.
"i told you I was here"
" i'm looking for you"
"i recieved this information from an alien"
other than that, I can't think of any horror movie samples. what songs are you talking about paradigm? as far as fast stuff locally produced, I think I have heard most of it, and I can't think of a single one with evil samples or sounds from horror movies. personally, I am a sci fi junkie.
well, "money for nothing". that was kind of evil, but I don't think those guys are from here, and that trac was like 144
|
|
|
|
Kalima
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
82
Posted : May 4, 2005 00:38
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-04 00:31, ohmy wrote:
ok, i don't know much, but I was understanding Kali to be the goddess that was called to eradicate evil that is so powerful that none of the other gods or goddesses could handle it. She is like the complete bad ass who has the final word. I don't know much though.
|
|
You bet, her destructive side is invoked by Shiva and Vishnu, when they could not deal with the demons that they themselves created. She does have the final word, this primordial dark mother:-)
AS for music styles I completly agree with you and am a huge fan of music like yours and Ocelots'
----------
If you want a taste of religion, lick a witch!
|
|
|
|
BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : May 4, 2005 01:25
|
Paradigm-
I don't know where Jungle is at today.. Probably so underground, you can only find the "real" vibe & parties still happening are organized by the more affluent pygmie tribal natives in the rainforests of Paraguay...
-----------------
Speaking of Jungle… that brings me back to my clubbing days of a decade ago. ( That refefrence goes to show you what a wise, enlightened experienced old sage that i am.. so listen up everyone!)
They used to have a kick-ass house-techno club in my town in Gainesville, FL – with an POWERFUL underground vibe to it… People would come wearing sweat bands and simple workout clothes… for one reason, to dance their legs off till 12 noon the next day. Oh, and all that endless missle silo product and doves made people smile, love each other up and have cosmic conversations the likes of which no one had ever seen before. They played techno and hard-trance downstairs, and Orb/Global Communication style ambient-dub on the rooftop – I was awed by the generally intelligent and classy vibe. I think the music brought it on.
The it “evolved” into house downstairs and trip-hop on the rooftop – and it attracted a lot more people...especially a narrcistic dress-up-and-show-off … let’s-hook-up-baby kinda element
Then by the late 90’s it “evolved” into big beat and booty breaks downstairs, and urban-drum-and-bass on the rooftop…and a huge emphasis on alcohol sales and hours. The music attracted this weird psuedo-gangster trailer-trash element, posing and posturing with angry faces… wearing clothes with funny labels, visors & XXXtra oversized pants. Most significantly, was that they didn’t look like there were having a good time AT ALL. I remember going there spun-out one night. and it was the last straw. I mumbled out loud: “what the hell… this is no environment for a psychedelic experience – I am never coming back” .
Thankfully, I discovered Goa trance a few weeks later, and had a few good years of shouting “Fuck yeah!” and feeling the fierce power and quantum melodies… and feeling like there was one unified underground global PSYCHEDELIC scene once again.
---------
Anyways.. I tend to see see the same pattern of downward “evoloution” in US psytrance that happened in my old club scene… in the fall from glorious Psychedelic GOA (the music and the place) to the nasty music and rough crowd that dominates the nighttime there today….
The whole change in tone, vibe , & emergence of angry faces and “crappy” music on the dance floor… I have seen it before - and it is always a cue to change my scene and look for the next emerging portal/… not resist it.
x
It’s a sign that the 604oz bag of BBQ fritos that was one crisp and fresh, is getting STALE… losing it’s magic and attrating a whole different type… soon to be eaten up by vultures and fire ants….. until all that is left is a tattered, non-biodegrabale Memory Shell
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
WHO WOULD JESUS DO?
WHAT WOULD JESUS DANCE TO?
------------
"A dance-floor divided against itself cannot stand" - Abraham Lincoln |
|
|
|
BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : May 4, 2005 01:46
|
>Ocelot wrote:
>system with sufficient amplifier headroom to not >distort, providing it does not exceed say 130-140 >db, should not cause any pain whatsoever to
140db @ 155 bpm???? oh, i forget that is the "new morning music". no distortion? Better hope those scream samples came from some mighty clean source material.
all I can say is: Merciful Vishnu!!!
Sounds like the JonesTown Electric Kool Aid Cyanide Test ....
IF you survive, you better start saving for one of those ultra-fancy new hearing aids! |
|
|
|
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : May 4, 2005 02:12
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-04 01:25, BrettFromTibet wrote:
Anyways.. I tend to see see the same pattern of downward “evoloution” in US psytrance that happened in my old club scene… in the fall from glorious Psychedelic GOA (the music and the place) to the nasty music and rough crowd that dominates the nighttime there today….
|
|
damn dude, please speak for yourself and the parties that YOU go to. Parties that I've been to are nothing like that. If YOU are sick of the music, go find something else. if YOU are sick of the certain sound, don't go to those events. Please, don't prophecy doom for us, you come off much much darker, gloomier, and more depressing than any of the so-called "dark" producers you're accusing here.
Maybe it's natural for a musical style to evolve in a certain way. Psytrance has much more creativity in it than DnB ever had. DnB went the way of the dinosaur because it started sounding ALL THE SAME, not because it got dark.
The more diversity, the better, imo. Some people want to hear darker and harder shades, some people like the fluffier more uplifting sounds, some like progressive, and some like tech - could we please stop ragging on the "other" camps already?
thank you.
 ..it's just another party.. |
|
|
|
mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : May 4, 2005 02:46
|
In the end, all of the opinions that have been expressed here are indeed subjective. I don't think that anyone in here, myself included has the right to say what is good for anyone else except themselves. A lot of the opinions expressed in this thread seem to take the tone of "listen to me, I know what I am talking about." There's no reason why any of these music styles cannot coexist at an event, I would think that you would want multiple subgenres at an event to avoid the music getting old and having those people that aren't into the sound of music that's being played all the time complaining on a world forum. At the end of the day, you like the music you like, and nobody's opinion will do anything to change that. If you aren't getting what you need from the music in your area, perhaps you should seek out what you are looking for and stop complaining about it.
Brett, we've gone around and around about this subject for several years now and the only thing that I can say that will have any weight on this discussion is that you like what you like, if you don't like it, don't listen to it but don't expend the energy to complain about it too, all that will do is start these seemingly pointless discussions and eventually piss off those that would much rather live and let live. I know the parties where you are cater more toward the darker end of the spectrum, perhaps you should assemble a crew of djs that play the sound you like and throw your own party. I am sure that many people will appreciate what you are trying to do and it might even be a breath of fresh air to those that are over the same old same old. Why rag on any of the camps when you can just shut up and dance? In the end the energy that you expend through dancing will outweigh any type of energy you expend complaining about people making music that you don't like.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
|
|
|
David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : May 4, 2005 03:01
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-04 02:46, mubali wrote:
I would think that you would want multiple subgenres at an event to avoid the music getting old and having those people that aren't into the sound of music that's being played all the time complaining on a world forum.
|
|
That is the ONE reason why I started this thread.
So will everyone just kiss and make up. Or start another thread and get it all out. This thing has gone on and on for all the wrong reasons.
I got my information.
Offthenutboom, I will think about how I word things next time.
you will see who is on the line up (a line-up for everyone)!
So can someone lock this thread already before it starts a war. GEEEES
http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
|
|
|
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : May 4, 2005 03:12
|
With peasure, David.
Looking forward to the party
|
|
|
|
|
