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where have all the elders gone?

TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals

Started Topics : 23
Posts : 743
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 16:45

Quote:

On 2011-01-04 16:21, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
compassion for the whole world is a theory i never truely liked.

Buddhists might say, compassion for the whole world, is nothing more than compassion for the whole self.

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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics : 38
Posts : 1931
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 20:18

another social issue that i am wondering about is the following:
i find it very suspect that so many of the so called elders in the so called psychedelic family actually have not seen their parents for twenty years. this is clearly not a serious social statement based on enough statistical data but it is my personal observation. how can i treat a person as an elder with respect if he never did it with his own elders.
but i know. the virtue is actually not to base your respect on your own elders. it is a family system outside of the casual family right? this is what i dont like about the hippy culture also. if you rebell against a political and social system, does it mean that you can not do it with respect for those who helped you grow while you were a kid?

i find it disturbing to cut any connection to the biological family. it is also what i find disturbing about buddhism also. spiritual growth begins in front of your personal door. and after that you can begin with the "world" also. and be compassionate.

mk47
Inactive User

Started Topics : 118
Posts : 4444
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 20:34

this whole "elders" business is a crock of shit , what the fuck is an "elder" anyway .. some 49 year old nutter fucking himself up on dmt every weekend ? fuck off ..

TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals

Started Topics : 23
Posts : 743
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 20:41

The front door, inside and out, and oneself is as much a part of the world as anything else. One isn't some alien, something seperate from the world, though Western thought tends to project things as such.

Funny enough, in all my reading, study and practice of buddhism I have never come across anything that advocated cutting oneself off from one's family. Certainly one tend to be warned of the karmic consequences of being a "householder" for example, but equally their are ramificiations for being a monk, as with all decisions of life.
Certainly though, Buddhism seems to encourage one to think for oneself, and make up one's own mind.
Buddhism does tend to "negate" some of the specialness of ones biological family, but postulating the notion that perhaps we are each others brother/sister/parent/child/lover/enemy in all roles across the vastness of space and time. Also that of all these roles/modes; compassion tends to be optimal for the greatest happiness/funky vibes.

One thing the Mahayana-Secret Doctrine-Dzogchen schools tend to emphasis is that one shouldn't foster one's own strange notions of the universe onto your own children. Rather you can't equally expect your children to share one's own fascination with the arcane and esoteric.

But yeah you seem to be using your brain, and thinking for yourself, so in the advice of Tim Leary, keep on...

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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics : 93
Posts : 2822
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 21:09

an 'elder' (not super fond of that term either, for the record) for me is someone who I respect in the scene who has been in it and contributed to it for a long time.

For instance, party organizers who have been doing it for a decade+ barely breaking even or consistently losing money but doing it anyway for love of the music and the community.

Or older experienced people who don't trip or do drugs anymore(or who are quite used to them and can be lucid the entire time) but are there to help people in distress or to help plant seeds of thought in someone's addled brain that they might not have otherwise considered.

Of course though, there are exceptions...there are people who have been in the scene for over a decade that I don't really respect very much, and people who have been in it for a couple of years only and are very active and engaged who I have a lot of respect for...

Definitely one of the things that I like most about the psy scene is that it is on average an older crowd. I help organize a party in Portland and at our new year's day party we had dub/dnb/dubstep upstairs and trance downstairs...it was very interesting moving from one floor to another and seeing the really 'serious' dancers/trippers in the trance room compared to the much younger get-drunk-and-wobble-and-try-to-get-with-that-chick dubstep crowd. Oops, sorry, I'll stop myself before I get into a dubstep rant

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porko rosso

Started Topics : 2
Posts : 113
Posted : Jan 4, 2011 21:41

lalaland may not exist and were informed about
but can visit sometimes cause weve got magic powers
music is a pleasure by itself, you either let yourself or not, and yes there are priorities in life more important than our own pleasure.
life is not only music
and especially not only psychedelic/goa/whatever trance music.
there are thousands more experiences that hook you in the trip of life other than only the ls-i've found the meaning of life-d

chrismas table and friendly gatherings were full of food and drink thankfully and some elders need a good dump now more than ever

keep it soft & a good year!

moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics : 38
Posts : 1931
Posted : Jan 5, 2011 10:41

some elders are also very jealous about newcomer organisers. they are afraid we would steal their public, we will steal the people from them. and they are the ones to start generation wars also.
exactly where they are needed most, they refuse to cooperate.

an example. we organise an event with an emphasise on the old school culture. what does it mean, i dont mean music, but philosophy und visionary ideas. we have small budgets but still big hopes and power. we start. we have the feeling we thought about everything. we even broght psychedelic ambulances, we brought professors to talk and discuss ( this is old school), we took care of every spot in the place, about the hygiene. whatever you can think of. in the night of the party we realize we forgot something so important - we forgot to rent enough sitting places. not everyone can sit. we suddenly feel , there are few people at the event who have blood pressure problems. they do need to sit. no place . only the floor. other guests made it dirty with glass pieces already. we get heart attacks. it was our responsibility to take care, but the tasks were so many, and none of us has more than 10 years experience with organising. most do not have even one. a catastrophy. and it could happen totally different if there was an elder to tell us this simple fact that we do need to take care for people who need to sit.
but they refused. they are afraid of us. they say we should have cooperated with them, instead of doing it like hamsters all alone . but a cooperation was not possible because they do not find interest in our ideas anyway. what we think is the basic concept of a certain event, would be a side programm for them. it is not possible to cooperate. after that if we try alone, they start wars. how could we, they say. there were 5 other parties on that day. what the f*. there are thousands of parties anyway. they are mostly the same. we want something different.
whatever.

i am sorry shahar for not keeping quite and reconsidering things as you ask me. i try:). words just came automatically. i am just writing opinions, as respectful as i can.

the problem is not only that we walk alone on the path. but some elders even walk against us and try to ruin us. we are the big thread for the trance economy. of course, * sarkasm *, if we have a budget of 50000 euro, we would not make anything good for the trance economy. of course we would. even with ten we would.
whatever.

Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member