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When do we need more than 44100?
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
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Posted : Aug 8, 2008 00:31:08
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I'm sure it has been discussed before, but could find the thread...
I'm wondering, when does it make sense to use samplerates more than 44100?
Recording hardware synths? Or making final mixdown?
44100Hz\24bit seems to be quite ok for me, but i think that there must be a reason why all soundcards support up to 96 or even 192 Khz.
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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1055
Posted : Aug 8, 2008 00:39
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Lower latency is one reason i can come up with and as far as i read higher samplerate allows for instance a plugin effect to work with more samples which theoretical speaking would give a more "detailed" file. But if its noticeable, i canŽt say i notice it.
Also i read a blind test where they compared a two files i think the first was a 48KHz file vs a 96 KHz and it was a 50/50 result so conclusion: you canŽt tell
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Aug 8, 2008 02:01
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oh man, this has been discussed very intensely
on the forum.
I never use more than 48khz sampling rate, for music I use 44.1, for movies 48k. Simply because it is standard...
make sure you lowpass your mix around 20khz when going for 44.1 so you avoid aliasing meaning the wavelength is too short to be correctly sampled, 21khz becomes 19khz e.g.
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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Posted : Aug 8, 2008 11:46
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On 2008-08-08 02:01, Upavas wrote:
make sure you lowpass your mix around 20khz when going for 44.1 so you avoid aliasing meaning the wavelength is too short to be correctly sampled, 21khz becomes 19khz e.g.
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Do you mean that you put a lowpass on your master?
If a synth alias then youŽll notice for sure, the manufacturer put that kind of info in the documentation or there is a button to turn off the anti-alias filter.
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 8, 2008 12:00
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Generally speaking, you don't need more than 44.1kHz, and any significant difference in quality will be in the bitrate of the wave. A track rendered or recorded at 24 bit/96kHz will have something like 250 times the quality of a file at 16 bit/44.1kHz, but the difference is so difficult to hear that I don't think it's worth wasting the hard disk space, bouncing every individual loop at anything more than 24/44.1. I usually render at 24/96 when a track is done, master it, and render the mastered wave at 16/44.1, since you can't burn a higher bit or sample rate to CD anyway.
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piko_bianko
Oxya
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57
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974
Posted : Aug 8, 2008 12:16
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tv sound is @ 48khz
extreme |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
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128
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2899
Posted : Aug 8, 2008 13:06
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-08 12:16, piko_bianko wrote:
tv sound is @ 48khz
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So lets watch tv
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piko_bianko
Oxya
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57
Posts :
974
Posted : Aug 8, 2008 17:24
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-08 13:06, Dennis the menace wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-08-08 12:16, piko_bianko wrote:
tv sound is @ 48khz
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So lets watch tv
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let's listen to tv 
extreme |
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Pythagoraz
TimeDrained / Pythagoraz
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8
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337
Posted : Aug 8, 2008 23:30
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When you make movies and television the sound is 48khz, so when I for instance make stuff for those medias i do it in 48khz.
other than that I don't mess around with anything above 44.1khz...
Remember that CDs you buy are 16bit/44,1khz so that should do the trick for most of us...
24bit however is demanded by labels when sending work to mastering studios even though CDs are in fact 16bit. This is because of the "Molestation" the file is put through during the mastering.
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Upavas
Upavas
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3315
Posted : Aug 9, 2008 12:34
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-08 11:46, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-08-08 02:01, Upavas wrote:
make sure you lowpass your mix around 20khz when going for 44.1 so you avoid aliasing meaning the wavelength is too short to be correctly sampled, 21khz becomes 19khz e.g.
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Do you mean that you put a lowpass on your master?
If a synth alias then youŽll notice for sure, the manufacturer put that kind of info in the documentation or there is a button to turn off the anti-alias filter.
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A lowpass is a definite and certain option, I am not sure that synths have alias filters in them. Or that synths don't alias, can you please specify?
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master bud
Started Topics :
6
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144
Posted : Jan 15, 2009 14:04
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It depends on the synths u use; there are many which produce higher frequencies than Nyquist. Even if ur synths are OK there can be lots of nonlinear elements (any fx with amplitude nonlinearity) in the chain providing harmonics beyond Nyquist.
These higher frequencies will be folded back below Nyquist using the Nyquist frequency as a pivoting point. That means if u got the Nyquist at 22.05 kHz (like at CDs) and ur synth (or whatever) produces freqs higher than this p.e. F=32 kHz, than u got:
fs=44.1
fN=fs/2=22.05
fdiff=F-fN=32-22.05=9.95
falias=fN-fdiff=22.05-9.95=12.1
(all in kHz)
U got an added frequency at 12.1 kHz, easily at a non-musically-harmonic spot. U will hear this.
So, it all depends on the antialiasing filters hanging before the signal enters into the AD sampling if u record ur synth's output. Before that u need to filter out all freqs higher than Nyquist. If u use a steep filter u lose musicality if u use a not-so-steep one u need higher samplerate.
Similar the case when u use the DA section of ur soundcard. U need similar type filters like mentioned before which are called reconstruction filters.
Making what you want with what you have |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : Jan 15, 2009 14:27
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I haven't tried recording in 96k since my PC Logic 5 days where I could not use different sample rate audio files in the same arrangement.
So I just stuck with 44.1k.
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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158
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Posted : Jan 15, 2009 17:25
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On 2008-08-08 12:00, Kane wrote:
A track rendered or recorded at 24 bit/96kHz will have something like 250 times the quality of a file at 16 bit/44.1kHz, but the difference is so difficult to hear that I don't think it's worth wasting the hard disk space
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agree with that
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~d2~
Inactive User
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751
Posted : Feb 1, 2009 08:38
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One reason for using a higher sampling rate is that it allows for more tolerance of filter design in the converter. This is usually what people hear when they perceive a difference between 96k and 44.1k. Other things to consider are your source material. A lot of electronic music, arguably, won't justify the higher rate. Where as acoustic instruments may.
Another consideration is the number of time you go in and out of the box (DAW). |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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576
Posted : Feb 1, 2009 18:18
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On 2008-08-08 00:31:08, Medea wrote:
I'm wondering, when does it make sense to use samplerates more than 44100?
Recording hardware synths? Or making final mixdown?
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Both. Sample rate of recorded material should be at least twice times higher than the frequency u are recording.. So practically, u dont need to record in more than 8000-10000 sample rate, that is, if ur recording a voice :-D I always mixdown and rec at at least 88 kHz..
Upavas was making a good point but since I dont lowpass..
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