x-rayz
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:50
d2 ur right about that.. DJing is more fun too learn, you just spin and it comes by itself.. Production is learning, learning, until u can have some real fun..
orgytime
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 14:45
something ill add...
example...
your mainlead should be 16bars, and u want a 2nd lead right after it,
cut the mainlead+kick+bass at the 15th bar and riseing the 2nd lead in the LAST 16th bar.
just dont add simply 1 bar to the 16th bar and then another 8bars for the 2nd lead.
and... if youre listening to any progressive metal (at example) they also "break" rules, like playing 7/8, 15/16 and so on...
well, with some knowledge you really could do something great with no FIXED bars.
if youre listening to this 1st min. you want to hear it again and again, because this triolic change is so fcking awesome aaahh
shellbound
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 17:40
Quote:
On 2009-02-04 11:38, x-rayz wrote:
Yeah but who will play that track in a club? DJ would pick that record and break it into pieces since it would ruin otherwise good mix..
Everything else is cool..
1. not everyone makes tracks "for the djs"
2. isn't it one of the skills/responsibilities of a dj to know their tracks and find ways of working those tracks into their sets? if that creates "work" for you, then maybe djing isn't for you (not you, x-rayz, but the general "you") and you should stick to pressing play on your home stereo.
3. something odd like this can create excitement on the dance floor, just like it could kill the groove. same as something steady can truely put you in trance or it could just bore you to death. it's not so clear cut.
x-rayz
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 18:57
1. yeah but this is forum bout israeli trance, not opera, at least I thought..
2. so what would u do if the track is bout to end, next one is already mixed in and that odd break is about to come? u can cut the track, mask it with filter, spin it backwards but none of it is right..
only option dj could do to make it right is to beat juggle, to prolong the track for that 5 missing bars.. but for that u would need 3 turntables..
and as I see it cuting out the loops in the track before the mix even started dont seem like a dj "work" at all.. djs select track, not edit them..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions
~d2~
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 19:26
Quote:
On 2009-02-04 18:57, x-rayz wrote:
1. yeah but this is forum bout israeli trance, not opera, at least I thought..
2. so what would u do if the track is bout to end, next one is already mixed in and that odd break is about to come? u can cut the track, mask it with filter, spin it backwards but none of it is right..
only option dj could do to make it right is to beat juggle, to prolong the track for that 5 missing bars.. but for that u would need 3 turntables..
and as I see it cuting out the loops in the track before the mix even started dont seem like a dj "work" at all.. djs select track, not edit them..
DJs can edit if they want.
DJs use loop samplers. why not edit? DJs might pull the fader across for a bar and then back. thats an edit.
And then what about PSY-TRANCE producers that play their music live? they exist.
If a DJ cant handle an extra bar then they should never be allowed to play at a party. We need to start ironing out the good ones from the bad. (not saying you are either x-rayz)
/rant over
shellbound
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 19:43
Quote:
On 2009-02-04 18:57, x-rayz wrote:
1. yeah but this is forum bout israeli trance, not opera, at least I thought..
2. so what would u do if the track is bout to end, next one is already mixed in and that odd break is about to come? u can cut the track, mask it with filter, spin it backwards but none of it is right..
only option dj could do to make it right is to beat juggle, to prolong the track for that 5 missing bars.. but for that u would need 3 turntables..
and as I see it cuting out the loops in the track before the mix even started dont seem like a dj "work" at all.. djs select track, not edit them..
and, once again, everybody produces for their own reasons. if your motivation is to strictly make dancefloor burners and have as many djs wanting to play your tracks as possible, then the original question becomes much easier. then all your tracks should have at least a 16 bar intro and outro and everything should be on the beat, nice and neat. it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this and that you can't be creative even within such structure, but it's just not for everyone. so if someone wants to make whatever music the person finds interesting and challenging, then that's going to be the primary motivation. if it also happens to be popular on the dancefloor and with the djs, that's certainly a huge bonus. but it doesn't have to be the main thing.
if you, as a dj, can't work a track into your set because of something like this, then you simply don't play it. leave it to someone more determined and creative to do that, which will separate her from the rest. too much laziness around...
and that's partly why djing with ableton should be pushed more. not to make something that was possible before to be done without effort (hey, i don't even need to beatmatch anymore, yay!), but to push things forward and be able to do something that wasn't really possible before.
x-rayz
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 19:56
hehe now u dig it septa..
yeah its all about the point of view.. for instance when I didnt spin tracks before, I experimented a lot in production, made long intros and stuff that were meant for home play, but now when I have the need to play the tracks on decks I just stick to the grid..
I insisted to push it on this topic just because I had similar problem with one track recently, it wasnt odd bar, it was noizy bar and skipping beat.. But since track was good , determination prevaled and in the end I cuted out those broken beats..
~d2~
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 21:19
I reckon we should just have dukebox style parties where everyone can mail in or vote on what they want to hear before hand and then a program a computer to play them.
x-rayz
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 22:11
~d2~
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Posted : Feb 4, 2009 22:26
Well yes...but I think some good points from both sides of the fence have been brought up about DJ friendliness in song writing.
Maybe find another thread
Soundmagus
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Posted : Feb 5, 2009 10:35
interesting discussion you 2, but back on topic
Here is a structure for you which may help you learn then hopefully ditch it and create your own, with extra bars etc to upset the dj`s :P
THE INTRO - BARS 1-16 & 16-32
FIRST BODY - BARS 32-48
THE DROP - BARS 64-72
THE SECOND BODY - 72-88 & 88-104
THE DROP - BARS 104-108
THE REPRISE - BARS 108-116
THE MAIN BODY - BARS 116-148 & 148-180
THE OUTRO - BARS 180-196 & BAR 196-212
This structure is taken from the book "Dance Music Manual"
Ok now this is very structured but a good learning point and i have left out the explanation of what each section is due to me being lazy and cant be bothered writing it all in but for those who are interested i would be happy to scan in all the details from the book.
hope this helps insome way,
Mark
Check out my site for Video tutorials and other tips & Tricks
aaahh
