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What Song Structure Do You Use? Need Help! PT 2
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
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1848
Posted : Feb 21, 2009 05:02
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Good read! Nice input from Hyperboreans, thanks 
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Pythagoraz
TimeDrained / Pythagoraz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
337
Posted : Feb 21, 2009 11:38
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I dunno if Full-on and stuff like that is particular depending on specific arrangement structures, but to sum up my thoughts on the matter, You should just make the track evolve in however way You feel it works... Our last 2 tracks "Alexanderplatz and (especially) our upcomming V/A Release "Sacha" doesn't follow any "ordinary structure" and We as well as everybody we have spoken to, like the evolvement at least as much as any traditionally arrangement out there. This is true both when it comes to home-listening as well as when we perform Live.
If You really "need" some kinda rule, I would have to say that in a track that is more than 5min. long, some kinda break is generally a good idea somewhere in the middle of the track. -But the best rule in my oppinion is that You shouldn't try to do what "everyone" else is doing... That can only ever bring mediocrity at best, but more likely just boring and predictable music.
In my oppinion that is...
 www.iono-music.com
www.myspace.com/timedrained |
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
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13
Posted : Feb 24, 2009 05:43
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Body is main part of the song, where energy levels are normal and track keeps going at same intensity
Main Body is same as the body but with more intensity, meaning layers, effects, whatever..
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First off, I would like to thank you all for the excellent advice. It has helped me out greatly. Please keep them coming.
X-rays, Would the main body be considered a climax? Can you show me some examples of a main body or body itself? I am starting to get it, but a visual would put me at my climax |
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
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13
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 15:56
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On 2009-02-21 11:38, Pythagoraz wrote:
If You really "need" some kinda rule, I would have to say that in a track that is more than 5min. long, some kinda break is generally a good idea somewhere in the middle of the track.
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Thank you for your response...How do you do your breaks? Do you do what ever you want as long as the energy is at its lowest?
Do you take every instrument away and stick with a pad sound? Do you have a melody with a simple beat? |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 16:18
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mukti777
Mukti
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
268
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 21:39
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@ Pathagoraz..
"If You really "need" some kinda rule, I would have to say that in a track that is more than 5min. long, some kinda break is generally a good idea somewhere in the middle of the track. -But the best rule in my oppinion is that You shouldn't try to do what "everyone" else is doing... That can only ever bring mediocrity at best, but more likely just boring and predictable music."
I couldn't agree more...in my opinion, song structure should be based soley on how you internalize the messege, or story...hmmm...cryptic, I know...Formulas are easy to fall into, no matter what kind of music one is creating...I would suggest working on one phrase at a time to start off with(whether it be 8bars,16,32..whatever), and let that "envelope" you and evolve naturaly, rather than trying to see the 'big picture' from the get-go...develope single instruments...you may find that that one phrase/instrument is all you want to build upon, rather than feeling 'obligated' to have multiple parts...make sense? Of course this is a projection of my own style
Most important thing...always have fun doing it! Expirimentation will be your key!
"Any act, if in accordance with the Will, is an act of Magick."
metameme.org |
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
13
Posted : Feb 26, 2009 16:34
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On 2009-02-25 21:39, mukti777 wrote:
@ Pathagoraz.."I would suggest working on one phrase at a time"
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Thank you again for the great advice. Here is something I have been meaning to ask.
I think I have an idea, but what is a phrase or musical phrase? I see it used in definitons. For example,
A riff is a constantly repeated musical phrase used esp. as background for a soloist or as the basic theme of a final chorus: a term that originated in jazz music
Thank you again for your help. |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 26, 2009 17:32
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On 2009-02-24 05:43, rocknje wrote:
X-rays, Would the main body be considered a climax? Can you show me some examples of a main body or body itself? I am starting to get it, but a visual would put me at my climax
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Sorry, I was a litlle away from this topic..
No the main body isnt like climax and yes I can send u tutorial that visualy describes trance structure, no problem, just drop me mail in PM and once I dig it up Ill send u so we can get this over with..
And please dont call me X-Rays, its X-Rayz, I didnt write that accidentaly, z should be there..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
13
Posted : Feb 27, 2009 07:55
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Sorry, I was a litlle away from this topic..
No the main body isnt like climax and yes I can send u tutorial that visualy describes trance structure, no problem, just drop me mail in PM and once I dig it up Ill send u so we can get this over with..
And please dont call me X-Rays, its X-Rayz, I didnt write that accidentaly, z should be there..
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Thank you very much. Will do and Very sorry for the mispelling. Not intentional. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 27, 2009 13:18
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A "phrase" is the smallest musical idea that has its own integrity, and cannot be further divided without losing its message.
This means a phrase can have 1 note, or be bars long, but mostly phrases are used as a basis for motifs or melodies that themselves have a longer "group" length.
motiffs, sections and themes contain phrases. but a phrase does not contain any of the above.
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
13
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 17:34
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On 2009-02-27 13:18, bukboy wrote:
A "phrase" is the smallest musical idea that has its own integrity, and cannot be further divided without losing its message.
This means a phrase can have 1 note, or be bars long, but mostly phrases are used as a basis for motifs or melodies that themselves have a longer "group" length.
motiffs, sections and themes contain phrases. but a phrase does not contain any of the above.
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Thank you for your input. To make sure I understand about this. Lets say a motif for example. The notes contained in the motif would be a phrase? I am I right so far?
Also, a phrase can be any amount of notes? |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 20:26
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thats correct.
any amount of notes that does not have repeating parts. those would be considered independent phrases.
of course - a phrase is a convenient concept so making it an infinity long may be counter intuitive.
a motif is a repeating phrase, which can be identical, or similar, bearing those similarities in the rhythm and melody, or just the rhythm.
a motif can reappear anywhere in music. it could be a theme, or a background bassline... so long as it can be recognised.
psy uses many many motifs. |
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rocknje
Started Topics :
6
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13
Posted : Mar 3, 2009 02:33
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On 2009-03-02 20:26, bukboy wrote:
thats correct.
any amount of notes that does not have repeating parts. those would be considered independent phrases.
of course - a phrase is a convenient concept so making it an infinity long may be counter intuitive.
a motif is a repeating phrase, which can be identical, or similar, bearing those similarities in the rhythm and melody, or just the rhythm.
a motif can reappear anywhere in music. it could be a theme, or a background bassline... so long as it can be recognised.
psy uses many many motifs.
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Here is another thing to throw at you. So, a phrase is a phrase if it is played once, but once it is repeated then it is called a motif? By what you said a motif is a repeating phrase, then I should be right.
Here is another one, you open your piano roll and you have your pattern of notes, let's say 4 bars....as long as there are no repeating notes in the 4 bars that would be a phrase?
Thank you again for your help.
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
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38
Posts :
537
Posted : Mar 3, 2009 05:31
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I think you should do the same as me and buy a musi theory book.
But i want to know the answer too.
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2009 07:11
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so long as the 4 bar roll flows with continuity, and doesn't repeat rhythms (& melodies) then yes, it can be a phrase.
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