| Author
|
What Song Structure do you Use? Need help!
|
rocknje
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
13
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 16:45:22
|
Hello,
Sorry if this gets a little tedious. I am little bit above a beginner when it comes to electronic music production. I use FL Studio as my DAW and I am trying to make dance music...Trance being one of them. I have done many kinds of research and study, but I still need clarification on a few things.
I have found tutorials, example project files and listened to other producers music to try to see how they do it and I understand to a point, but when I try to compare the structure that they did to what info I found, I get confused.
From the research that I did, I understand that even though their are structures out there, it is up to you on how you want the
song to go, but for beginners I feel that a structure is a good thing until you learn the trade.
Example of a few structures I found.
1. Intro, First Body, Drop/Break, 2nd Body, 2nd Drop/Break, The Reprise, Main Body. Outro
2. Intro, Break, Motif and Build, Central Break and Build, Plateau and Build, Build to Climax, Theme and Climax,
Comedown, Outro
The intro, breaks and outros I understand, but it is the other parts of the structures I need some clarification. Do you normally stick with a 16 bar intro? can you do an 8 bar?
So here is the questions...Do you follow anything like these structures? Could any one explain a little further on what a climax
is? Body is? Reprise? Main Body? Do you guys follow a 8 bar, 16 bar etc rule when it comes down to arranging your song parts? Is it wrong to do a 4 bar?
Can you explain further what is a Motif? Riff? Lead? Do you make your Melody first? If so, do you make the melody in 8 bars? Is it wrong to have a 4 bar melody?
I have noticed especially in trance that there is about one main melody a producer comes up with in the song and they change synths, as well as arp, gate, stutter and pad the main melody they come up with to get variety. I have noticed other types as well,
but is it wrong to have different melodies in one song?
Ok, I will leave it at this for now. Thank you very much for reading and any help you can give. |
|
|
shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 3, 2009 19:49
|
first of all, there is no "wrong" way of doing this. questions like this is exactly the "art" of this whole thing. every track is about making thousands of small decisions out of infinity of possibilities. and what decisions you chose to make is what makes the track uniquely yours.
motif/riff is anything that is repeated and gives a track (or a part of it) an identity. it can be a melodic line, a recognizable rhythm, or sound that morphs in some way over time.
based on what you've written, you already understand enough to get you going. you can try to stick to some generic structure like the ones you mentioned just for the sake of finishing tracks. they will be solid structures, but understand that they are too safe, boring, and predictable. if you do 10 tracks that all follow roughly the same structure, you'll probably get bored of that yourself and will want to fuck shit up. like make some section 11 bars long. why not? you're in control, you can do whatever you want.
when you begin making a new track, create some elements first. some material for you to work with. then simply try to let the track lead you. what do you hear happening next? what is it asking for? if it was someone else's track and you were hearing for the first time, what can you imagine happening next?
another thing that people do is import a track of an established producer whose track just seems to flow. put markers to identify all the different sections and breaks that they do. then delete the track and build your own track using the markers as reference. but do it to learn, not to simply rip-off somebody else's ideas.
other than that, you just got to make those choices and believe in yourself. everybody struggles with this (especially in the beginning, but i'd guess this problem just doesn't completely go away... ever). |
|
|
|
rocknje
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
13
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 08:11
|
|
Hey, Thank you very much for your advice. Helped. I don't have anything to add right now. I am sure I will later. Thank you again. |
|
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 08:27
|
One thing I always try and consider is the balance between flow and contrast. Or if you like repetition and change.
You can listen to any style of music to hear this.
And I also like to think it terms of question and answer.
From memory I found lots of good stuff about classical composition on the web that helped me understand better.
Sometimes its harder to put into practice though.
|
|
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 08:30
|
Another thing to look at is the structure of films and books.
Even look at Septa's reply.
It has an intro and outro. Well punctuated body. Looks balanced on the page. |
|
|
|
x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 11:38
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 12:01
|
With the technology that DJ's have they could easily work with it. A musician could, so why can't a DJ. Is it because 95% of them haven't really a clue?
Sorry had to get this one of my chest.
 |
|
|
|
x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 12:47
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 12:56
|
I don't think an odd bar in a bridge or breakdown is a problem.
And if you find a cool track which has an odd bar in it that's a problem, edit it. Vinyl excluded. |
|
|
|
x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:08
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:17
|
I agree with intros but the DJ SHOULD be aware of it. that's their job. DJ's have it way too easy....I can't agree that its the job of the producer to not do it. Its their music!!!!......and the DJ usually takes a lot of credit for crowd response for what is actually someone elses work.
|
|
|
|
x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:33
|
ahh dunno bro, I view it from dj/producer point of view so I dont see logical reason why would I use odd bars too make it harder for myself, like it isnt hard enough already..
I mean, I seen some bad mastered tracks, damaged tracks and such and I know how much it takes to cut 3 bars out of the track but I also know how much quicker it is to just delete those tracks from hard drive.. So I dont wanna do to other djs what some "artists" done to me.. Its more a matter of mutual respect rather than some rules..
DJ presents artists tracks and gets a share of credit but also producer gets their tracks promoted.. Its like symbiosis..
 http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
|
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:41
|
DJing isn't hard!!!
Production is though!!! The difference in learning curve is enormous.
I just don't see why having an extra bar in the main breakdown, for example, is a problem if it helps balance the flow/contrast of the song better.
To cut out a bar from a track will take 5mins including loading and exporting out your DAW. Or you could use the loop function , for example, on the DJM600.
I personally don't see how the artist would get upset with an edit.....During mixing of the track you might use EQ, KILLS filter sweeps etc....its all alteration of the original. |
|
|
|
Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:42
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 13:44
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-04 13:42, Medea wrote:
I L0vE t3kn0 ! =)
Main Body - Main Body -Main Body -Main Body -Main Body
|
|
You sure your needle is jumping?
 |
|
|
|
