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what makes a real pro bass
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
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1505
Posted : Aug 17, 2009 15:55
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i donīt think itīs a monitoring issue. i know my babes... (and my accoustics) 
and the garden is a nice idea but not practical because of equipment and neighbours.
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How can acoustics not be an issue? If you have bad acoustics you have dips and peaks in your freq spectrum. On that basis you decide to eq and to set your filter. So afaik it will always have an impact on your sound. But i could of course be wrong. |
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CaptainOats
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
20
Posted : Aug 17, 2009 16:41
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You absolutly Right supergroover....its not all and not a must i think but its a big point to minimize the work and to be preciosion in the mix |
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frambonas
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
166
Posted : Aug 17, 2009 18:00
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But if you work for 10 years in a studio, you know your studio, and your accoustic problems.
It's not becouse your accoustics are not good, it means you will not be able to make a good bassline in that studio.
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Numenor
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
144
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 07:55
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for usser x^2
eksport the bass mono(if u dont want to play it on paning) and put him on cronnox sempler and explore and enjoy |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 12:58
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On 2009-08-13 18:07, SMS wrote:
3)If u use Cubase, do not mind about master clips. From Idoīs experience, he thinks that CUbase master channel clip is a GOOD limiter. So, if u miss some power, try to clip little bit the master before the mixdown. Then push it litttle bit more with a maximizer.
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and you really dont hear the distortion on his tracks (specialy hihats and high freqs) ???
i meen , great advices from ultra appiriciated pro , but damm even his album is frequently over cliping and totaly distorted.
you just wanna get fucked in your ears...
-2 RMS mastering isnt hot at all imo , listen to kiwa for real quality that isnt aggressive as simple clip.
maybe im wrong tho , the way i hear it hommega is one of the most thin sounds without dynamics at all.. as soon there is kick and bass its all one big block of sound without any freq or volume range - what takes the hole feeling away www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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x^2
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
6
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 15:23
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On 2009-08-17 15:55, supergroover wrote:
How can acoustics not be an issue? If you have bad acoustics you have dips and peaks in your freq spectrum. On that basis you decide to eq and to set your filter. So afaik it will always have an impact on your sound. But i could of course be wrong.
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donīt get me wrong. a proper accoustic setup is AS IMPORTANT as proper monitors. we totally agree on that one.
nevertheless i think i recognize a good bass when i hear it on my system.
and otherwise pro basslines would sound bad on my system too.
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Numenor wrote:
eksport the bass mono(if u dont want to play it on paning) and put him on cronnox sempler and explore and enjoy
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if i get you right you want me to take my basssounds, after i worked them out (synth + fx), and put them on a cronox then? hmmm...
gonna give it a try.
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Elad wrote:
as soon there is kick and bass its all one big block of sound without any freq or volume range
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and again i agree. zzzZZZzzz
from a sound engineerīs point of view this is just bad! no dynamics = no life (thatīs what i got taught)
but from a listenerīs point of view - damn! - it just works! 
of course this strongly depends on the direction of psytrance youīre trying to archieve.
for songs without constant 16th basslines a really strong bass feeling and even more groove can be accomplished without a very small rms mastering.
thanks so for far to everyone here. |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 17:11
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the single most important thing for me is getting the right sound source. if you start with the very best sound you can then everything else falls into place.
resampling your bass, or using a synth with really solid oscillator reset / retrigger / sync (so that the osc restarts at every note-on) is important. having really good snappy envelopes is important. you want rock-solid, consistent, full bass. it's easier to take frequencies away than add them...
if you do want to add more groove then IMO most important things are velocity, note placement, timbre and sidechaining.
small changes to velocity can really help a bassline come alive... particularly if you don't compress it much afterwards try mapping velocity to the amp level, or filter cutoff, or both...
moving notes forward or backwards just a tiny bit can inject lots of feeling into an otherwise static bass. machines aren't naturally funky, they need a bit of help and making notes slightly out of time gives them a human touch.
sidechaining can also be really useful - and really subtle! you don't need a big housey oomph-wah-oomph-wah exaggerated sidechain, just a little bit to help the kick and bass sit nicely.
have you tried moving the track delay forward or backward by a few ms?
the second most important thing imho is not giving too much of a fuck.
i used to lay out the bones of a promising track, get all excited and inspired and rattled off a bunch of patterns, then inevitably spent 40 minutes trying without success to get a bass sound i like.
three spliffs and a pair of tired ears later, i'm frustrated and end up junking the whole thing and moving onto a new project. this is really demoralising. i noticed that when trying to work on just kick & bass i soon lose any real sense of perspective - when i think 'killurgh! at last!' then unmute the other channels i realise what a big poo i've just done all over the tune.
kick and bass are hugely important... they're the meat of a track. but even if you write the world's most killargh kick and bass combo you're only halfway there. you've still got to write all the really interesting stuff!
so don't get hungup on getting the most perfect clone of the most perfect most fullon most killargh psybass EVER and forget that you're writing music, not just drum and bass although i do love good dnb!
also, bear in mind that depending on how you write you may need to come back and adjust kick & bass anyway...
finally, i hate to say it but i get all my bass straight from the Virus. hardware isn't the answer to everything, but it takes about 3 minutes to knock up a perfectly fatass bassline
http://www.myspace.com/aeonaeon |
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 19:19
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For my opinion you can make a killer bassline with vst's. find a good preset for start, than start to change the envople and the cutoff till you get the sound you realy like. after it i like to put urs eq(fulltec). it has good bass sound but i don't boost the bass too much! than i like to use vintage warmer (very carefully). quadrafuzz can be good but not always. a good limiter and good compressor. and offcourse good sidechain with the kick. atfer all this steps if i don't happy with the sound i might come back to the synth and move the nobs again. same thing at the eq and at the vintagewarmer.
what do you say guys for fullon bassline (my favourites basslines are u-recken's and gms) do i need to change the velocity of the bassline during the track? i fill i don't realy have to but i might be wrong...i just change the notes of the bassline sometimes |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 20:47
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On 2009-08-18 12:58, Elad wrote:
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On 2009-08-13 18:07, SMS wrote:
3)If u use Cubase, do not mind about master clips. From Idoīs experience, he thinks that CUbase master channel clip is a GOOD limiter. So, if u miss some power, try to clip little bit the master before the mixdown. Then push it litttle bit more with a maximizer.
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and you really dont hear the distortion on his tracks (specialy hihats and high freqs) ???
i meen , great advices from ultra appiriciated pro , but damm even his album is frequently over cliping and totaly distorted.
you just wanna get fucked in your ears...
-2 RMS mastering isnt hot at all imo , listen to kiwa for real quality that isnt aggressive as simple clip.
maybe im wrong tho , the way i hear it hommega is one of the most thin sounds without dynamics at all.. as soon there is kick and bass its all one big block of sound without any freq or volume range - what takes the hole feeling away
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Yup!!! I can feel that "one big block" at Idoīs master. And indeed, itīs not so hot and dynamic as I would like to be.
But, I must say that this kind of master has a massive feedback from dancefloor. Iīve never had a track mastered by Ido, but I do have some tracks from others masterings. I know a lot of ppl just tries to recreate that Idoīs sounds: u think its very power, but its more like "wow.. thats loud...".. then "wow.. that hurts my ear". But again, I do not feel that hurt at Idoīs masters! Sorry for that, but I have two tracks mastered by some isra guy... and it fuc*ing hurts my ear, specially at mid/high freq... Kind of annoying, but at the dancefloor, the initial factor is "WOW, thatīs loud".
Iīve just listed the things I remember from the old topic... And honestly, I quit this master clip tip. Indeed it makes the track very like "one HUGE block", but I canīt listen to then so mmuch time.
But as Colin said: master IS important to get the sound u want. For sure the right source will make it better, but change the master and u change the final sound.
LOADING... |
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lantiocho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 21:18
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I totally agree with -aeon- on this one! Getting the perfect bass/kick is less than half a way there... Send your project file to someone with experience on the genre and most important with better accoustic environment and let him mix and master it. I sent mine to a guy like that (don't want to mention which one) who brought my lifeless Trilogy full on bass into incredible comercial levels and now I study the way this man used all plugins he needed. I'm trying to get the killer bass and kick sound for almost a year now, but unfortunately my bedroom monitors don't have what it takes, although the sound has improved a lot over the months, but still... IMO the other sounds in your tune make your bassline a killer one!
www.myspace.com/antlabros |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 22:04
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All you need for a pro bass is knowledge about the synth you are using, 1 eq plugin and maybe something like R bass or some people prefer Quadrafuzz. I find myself not needing that either anymore. Aja, and then you need time to make it the way you want it to sound.
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Aug 18, 2009 22:46
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sidechain with a good compresor makes it really nice as well..same with some velocity modulation..
i really like the vintage compressor in cubase 4/5
-------......-------...-..-..-..-.-.-.-.- |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Aug 19, 2009 20:06
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On 2009-08-18 17:11, -aeon- wrote:
the second most important thing imho is not giving too much of a fuck.
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Amen  |
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Uedi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
288
Posted : Aug 19, 2009 20:35
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On 2009-08-19 20:06, soulfood wrote:
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On 2009-08-18 17:11, -aeon- wrote:
the second most important thing imho is not giving too much of a fuck.
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Amen
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muahaha!
With so much technique I get stuck on the creative process, all the time 
In the quest of achieve this and that, this and that kind of sound 
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Aug 20, 2009 02:02
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On 2009-08-19 20:35, Uedi wrote:
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On 2009-08-19 20:06, soulfood wrote:
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On 2009-08-18 17:11, -aeon- wrote:
you've get to have a good sound at electronic music production...after some time of orking on you sound i'm sure it won't take you too much time to get a good sound again and again at other tracks
the second most important thing imho is not giving too much of a fuck.
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Amen
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muahaha!
With so much technique I get stuck on the creative process, all the time
In the quest of achieve this and that, this and that kind of sound
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