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What is your ideal live set?
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mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 02:48
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my own liveish thingy is sort of like Cosm's set, sort of...
I dont break up full tracks into stems, instead, Ive got a few channels of loops; percussion, kick, random sounds, voice samples... All the synths, or at least most, are MIDI that are either step-time sequenced on the fly, played live and recorded, or the bassline which is an instance of Renoise rewired with a bunch of presequenced pattern templates. Also a dj channel with a 3 band EQ for finished whole tracks.
So far it sometimes sounds monotonous, repetitive, and whatnot, but sometimes it sounds really cool to me. Im still working on learning how to work with it, but Im very pleased so far. I set out mainly to accomplish a setup that will never sound the same twice, and this setup, it CANNOT sound the same twice, unless I really go out of my way to record everything.
My ideal live set Id say is like that, something that never replicates the same sounds and has a great deal of on the spot improvisation, and actual keyboard or other instrument playing.
As PoM said Renoise is super stable, Ive only crashed it maybe 4 or 5 times in the entire 8 years Ive been working with it. Compared to Ableton which I crash 5 times just choosing which VSTs to use  Ive seen some videos of Renoise live sets that blew my mind... Though I havent found a way to do what I do in Live, matching the tempos of loops and whatnot, in Renoise, and a majority of ideas Ive read on the Renoise forum involve bouncing back and forth between 2 instances much like a dj set. Theres lots of people working on the idea though, so perhaps very soon there will be a much more efficient method... Til then Ill be using Live, with obligatory Renoise rewire.
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
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478
Posted : May 13, 2011 06:59
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look, the only thing i'm interested in anymore is playing live.
i'm going to get a bunch of midi clips together on some well programed synths, and then i'm going to wiggle knobs for a couple of hours and make it interesting.
i'm sure it'll fuck up, but i'll have to figure out some way to make that not a horrible thing.
if people don't like it, fuck em, i worked hard and i tried my damnedest. |
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Splasher
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Posted : May 13, 2011 07:33
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If you can hit the MIDI notes exactly for it to sound like it's supposed to, than you can play live notes. But if you can't why bother fucking up?
Some knob twisting is fine, or playing with mute on/off. You can also play some random notes here and there.
If you really think about it, there's a lot of jerkoffs around criticizing how an artist plays his/her music, about 90% of em don't make make music. |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 11:00
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Well the jerkoffs here usually do make music so they sometimes have a point (mind you not all the time and not all the jerkoffs 
So we really need to come up with a new term for the way the artist is structering his music performance.
-Live doesnt cut it most of the time because it isnt live.
-Artist dj set comes close but if it isnt dj-ing that also doesnt really work.
-Artist showcase?
I think the main reason artists still call it live is because they can ask more money if it is a live in stead of a dj show. So why don't we try to add a third option here in stead of dj vs live. And make sure the real lives get paid even better for all the effort..
ps sorry for making it more off topic.. maybe we need a new thread for this.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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5292
Posted : May 13, 2011 12:52
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I would make a live mix of it in my studio, meaning, I would remix it, using distinct sounds from teh original mix and use different synth patches, sometimes even going away from the original riffs, although use similar scales and leave a lead sound, to sequence via midi in the live set, have a few drone synth patches (with slow attack where spot on keyboard skills are not required) open that I can trigger live, throw in a drum loop to filter in and out in the mix, some vocals with modulation plug ins that I can tweak in real time on stage.
No stems, a stereo mix that we add stuff on top.
Space for error (although we do practise repeatedly on our live set in the studio before a gig, ensuring that there will be no hick ups, CPU wise, throughout the duration of the live set), but I would have to be really stoned/drunk to fuck up enough to piss people on the dancefloor, off.
No space for actually re-arranging the music on stage, but I rather have a carefully built arrangement on stage, and most importantly, not a lot of stress involved with arranging clips live.
We preffer enjoying our selves when playing, instead of getting anxiety attacks and in our case, we can use Logic's synths and plug ins on which our production, heavily relies on.
I am en experienced Logic user an I can't be bothered to learn a new DAW to play live. You can be creative using anything nowdays...I mean people used to play live sets with ADATs/HDDs on playback duty, couple of hardware FX units, a mixing desk and a couple of synths. We do the same thing, but its all done in the MacBook Pro and have a nice portable midi controller to take care of business.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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Posted : May 13, 2011 14:20
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Quote:
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On 2011-05-13 02:48, mudpeople wrote:
As PoM said Renoise is super stable, Ive only crashed it maybe 4 or 5 times in the entire 8 years Ive been working with it. Compared to Ableton which I crash 5 times just choosing which VSTs to use Ive seen some videos of Renoise live sets that blew my mind... Though I havent found a way to do what I do in Live, matching the tempos of loops and whatnot, in Renoise, and a majority of ideas Ive read on the Renoise forum involve bouncing back and forth between 2 instances much like a dj set. Theres lots of people working on the idea though, so perhaps very soon there will be a much more efficient method... Til then Ill be using Live, with obligatory Renoise rewire.
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hey mate i would feel more like breaking full tunes into pattern and audio tracks and use renoise like a hardware sequenceur, trigering pattern and audio tracks during the live,what do you think?i dont know renoise enought to see the pro/cons,in fact i can see lot of pros but not much cons to me renoise look like is the ticket for a live like this. |
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Splasher
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12
Posted : May 13, 2011 14:36
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People are always going to diss on live acts to pretend that its important for the fans, nevertheless it's actually a way to sabotage artists.
They make fans believe artists aren't doing enough work on stage and ignore the whole process of making music.
Sabotage:
is a deliberate action aimed at weakening another entity through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction. In a workplace setting, sabotage is the conscious withdrawal of efficiency generally directed at causing some change in workplace conditions. One who engages in sabotage is a saboteur. As a rule, saboteurs try to conceal their identities because of the consequences of their actions. For example, whereas an environmental pressure group might be happy to be identified with an act of sabotage, it would not want the individual identities of the perpetrators known.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 18:41
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...
people bitch about live acts not being live because there are very few acts who actually DO shit live.
Not because its some conspiracy to discredit artists?
You need to smoke less, or smoke more. Something is wrong.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : May 13, 2011 19:01
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Quote:
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On 2011-05-13 14:36, Splasher wrote:
People are always going to diss on live acts to pretend that its important for the fans, nevertheless it's actually a way to sabotage artists.
They make fans believe artists aren't doing enough work on stage and ignore the whole process of making music.
Sabotage:
is a deliberate action aimed at weakening another entity through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction. In a workplace setting, sabotage is the conscious withdrawal of efficiency generally directed at causing some change in workplace conditions. One who engages in sabotage is a saboteur. As a rule, saboteurs try to conceal their identities because of the consequences of their actions. For example, whereas an environmental pressure group might be happy to be identified with an act of sabotage, it would not want the individual identities of the perpetrators known.
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DJing your own tracks as part of a 'Producer Set' celebrates studio-based creativity in a long-form format, and presents an artist's music in the same quality as that artist might otherwise have done in a pure-playback li(v)e set, without the deception involved in pretending you're doing something on stage when in fact you're not.
Pure-playback live sets marketed as 'live music' are the sabotaging influence, because they deliberately blur the qualitative distinction between performances based on live musicianship which include necessary elements of risk and real-time creativity, and performances based solely on showmanship with no actual live musicianship on display.
My name is Colin Bennun and I'm part of a 4-piece psytrance/etc live act called OOOD. What's your real name, and what is your practical involvement with the subject of live music?
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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mk47
Inactive User
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4444
Posted : May 13, 2011 19:30
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OOOD yes , you guys are awesome Colin , im a big fan
ontopic , iv no personal experience with live or anything but i imagine it could be a bit technical and challenging to do stuff "live" even if its a relatively small setup , synth / controller , maybe an fx unit or something into a laptop or whatever , the trouble is .. i don't think its meant to be delivered "live" in the usual live music sense so this "not doing enough onstage" is rubbish and both performer and audience should get it ..
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 13, 2011 19:40
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Quote:
| ontopic , iv no personal experience with live or anything but i imagine it could be a bit technical and challenging to do stuff "live" even if its a relatively small setup , synth / controller , maybe an fx unit or something into a laptop or whatever , the trouble is .. i don't think its meant to be delivered "live" in the usual live music sense so this "not doing enough onstage" is rubbish and both performer and audience should get it ..
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Tom Cosm does alright in terms of real-time interaction with the sounds coming out of the speakers, as do people like Disco Hooligans and many others, in their own ways. And yes, it is 'technical and challenging' - isn't this why live acts traditionally get paid more? Surely we put these people on stage and pay them more than a DJ because they're supposed to be very good at doing something quite difficult?
If it's not supposed to be "live", why do some people pretend that's what they're doing? I'm not convinced by your argument.
Thanks for the kind words  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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mk47
Inactive User
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4444
Posted : May 13, 2011 19:56
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oh , payments and organizational stuff i wouldn't know any about .. but it is a shame if that's what goes down , i was saying from a spectator point of view ... you don't want to judge psytrance live performances by on stage theatrics of the sort you might expect in some kind of concert or something , for the most part anyway
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 21:45
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Judge the music by the sounds coming out of the speaker. Don't overdo anything and take the aspects you can do more with to a unique level. Don't worry about what other people think of your actual setup or what you're doing, satisfy your artistic vision first.
My view of what you should do in a live set is as simple as this: do it to compliment your music. As long as you focus on making your live performance a positive addition to your music then you should be golden. This doesn't mean you can't have a setup like Axis Mundi and make mistakes.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 21:46
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hm.
To me when someone says 'theatrics' I think about non-musical stage presence. Light shows. Sliding across the stage on your knees. Dancing like a maniac, etc.
It's true that psytrance shows are not traditional concerts - however I do think that there is the possibility (and OOOD is a fantastic example) for live musical interaction in a psytrance setting outside of what we hear 99% of the time when someone is booked as a "live" act
Anymore I just assume that all live acts are not. That way I'm never upset or dissapointed...but if someone actually DOES do something live then I can fully appreciate them and heap praise on them afterwards.
I think your point (mk47) was that live performance is not required to enjoy a psytrance event? That its more about the music and less about the live-in-the-moment musicianship?
If that is your point I agree that its not *necessary* - but it can sure as hell be an added bonus. The rare occasions when I have seen people playing instruments and doing live shit I have enjoyed it immensely. The energy and vibe that you get out of a live performance is different than a DJ set...or at least it can be. Cosmosis and Psylab come to mind. There is something about someone..you know...playing an instrument that resonates with me. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 13, 2011 22:12
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Quote:
| The rare occasions when I have seen people playing instruments and doing live shit I have enjoyed it immensely. The energy and vibe that you get out of a live performance is different than a DJ set...or at least it can be. Cosmosis and Psylab come to mind. There is something about someone..you know...playing an instrument that resonates with me. |
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Wow... i'm completely opposite. I think psytrance is cool because the synthetic part of it, electronic non acoustic music. I just don't like it that much when they try to introduce live playing instruments or percussion it breaks the artificial feeling for me.
Psytrance events are not concerts people go there to enjoy dancing, music and getting fucked up.
The live part which I like is the knob twisting, loop mashing, fx play and so on... u know the kind of stuff that computers make possible and take a performance beyond than plugin a guitar or banging percussion.
This is precisely what I'd like to do when I play live... offer a different version on my tracks mangled on the fly. |
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