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What is your excuse for downloading iillegal mp3?
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
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1560
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 02:38
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On 2008-12-14 01:19, sergeantpepper666 wrote:
Where is this study? I think it is B.S. For example I download 0% of my msuic illegally, and I spend on average $200-300U.S more a month on buying music compared to all my friens whod ownload it illegally
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For example forrester done a study on download and purchase habits:
http://www.forrester.com/ER/Press/Release/0,1769,741,FF.html
There are more studies with the same conclusion, but I don't have any links now for them.
Any claim that pirates and customers is two separate groups is certainly a misconception...sure there are some individuals who only download and some who only buy, but most people have done both.
Personally I would like to buy more music. With software I have started buying a lot more now when it's usually possible to do online with little hassle after trying out a fully featured demo for a few weeks.
It's not worth the time looking for a working crack and it's of course nice to support developers.
But paying for buying a box in a store just adds to much unneeded financial and environmental extra costs, and reality is that I listen to more music and use more software than I can buy.
If it's a keeper I can pay for it, but if the company haven't made it possible for me to test or listen to the product without restrictions for some time I prioritize buying for those who do and download those who don't.
Unfortunately with psytrance the options to buy lossless downloads is very limited and it's usually more work to find a way to purchase it that is more convenient than p2p downloads.
So I'm paying some 90% on the price of a CD to a shop, distributor and label to help me get access to the goods, but they are actually doing a worse job than some kids setting up a DC++ hub for the fun of it!!
The half-hearted attempts in the psy-scene at digital distribution really needs some work:
1) People want convenience.
The offers today is too spread out and it's a lot faster to find a specific release from p2p networks than as a legal download.
A few shops that carry pretty much all releases as downloads would be good but labels and distributors licensing demands can make that hard since obviously their function becomes more obsolete with today's technology, so they cling on to the past.
2) People want value for money.
It doesn't work to charge same price for a lossless download as if you would have bought a CD in the shop. A very big share of the costs have been cut away and if that is not passed on to the customer it seems like a lousy deal.
The fact that any label would say that it's an amazing deal for everyone who likes one or two tracks on an album I guess means that they consider 90% of their output worthless.
The ones that actually appreciate a whole album is fine to ripp off though.
3) People who pay for psy want lossless.
There is no reason to charge a big premium today since bandwidth costs is negligible.
With the current state of affairs, if I really like something I instead check with the artist if they have a paypal account and send a few $.
But of course that might be just as illegal since legally it usually the label and distributors that have the rights to sell reproductions.
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 03:32
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This argument makes sense, but doesn't explain why this problem is most prevalent in the Psy Trance scene. I know in many other genres people too download music, but just as many if not more support the music y buying. Maybe it's just the attitude of the people here that makes the difference. Techno started small, and now is huge, same with D n B..all started from small underground scenes and now are thriving. Yes people download techno and D n B too, but soooo many people also buy, mixed cds, compilations, the same story. So why is it that we face such a problem here in this genre of music??
Most releases on websites such as Saiko Sounds offer 4 minute samples, so that is actually enough to gauge if you like it or not.
Licensing and copyrights do not prevent labels or distributors from putting the music on digital download sites, but these sites too sell each track for maybe a bit more than one pays per track on a cd.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 04:20
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On 2008-12-14 03:32, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
This argument makes sense, but doesn't explain why this problem is most prevalent in the Psy Trance scene. I know in many other genres people too download music, but just as many if not more support the music y buying. Maybe it's just the attitude of the people here that makes the difference. |
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With psytrance I think there are a number of reasons sells are going very bad, and I really don't think it's down to a different attitude.
First of all the popularity in countries where a regular income makes it feasible to buy music on CD is much smaller than it used to be. It was almost trendy in Europe for a while in the mid 90's and you would be exposed to it trough the mainstream, but now it's about as untrendy as one can get.
Sure...the scene has grown a lot the rest of the world, but there the cost of an imported CD becomes far too high compared to other goods.
Also, although the market is smaller the number of releases have skyrocketed, but I'm not so sure, when looking at the scene overall, that sales has gone down that much. It's just that instead of an album selling 6000 copies 10 albums sell 6000. Considering costs for glass master, mastering and artwork that means that there is no profit since the series is just too small.
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On 2008-12-14 03:32, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Yes people download techno and D n B too, but soooo many people also buy, mixed cds, compilations, the same story. So why is it that we face such a problem here in this genre of music?? |
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Techno is in many parts of Europe at least very popular now. It's played on the radio and in most clubs.
Unless you are a hardened freak with only psytrance friends most people would laugh at a nice psytrance collection and for a lot of people buying CD's, games or films is a status thing...to have a nice collection to show off with.
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On 2008-12-14 03:32, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Most releases on websites such as Saiko Sounds offer 4 minute samples, so that is actually enough to gauge if you like it or not. |
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I find it very tedious to sit there and keep loading a clip every few minutes and it's no way to enjoy music for me at least.
It's like watching a full-length film split up in lot's of 5 minute clips on youtube...of course one can do it but it really is annoying.
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On 2008-12-14 03:32, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Licensing and copyrights do not prevent labels or distributors from putting the music on digital download sites, but these sites too sell each track for maybe a bit more than one pays per track on a cd. |
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Sure, licensing and copyright doesn't hinder the distributors or labels for offering the tracks as downloads...since it's them who actually sets the terms.
But it's not uncommon with distributors not allowing labels to sign digital distribution deals, and not all labels have been very active with trying to get their material available digitally.
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« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 09:03
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We are here discussing illegal downloads, meanwhile many artist leak their unrealesed tracks on the net, and everybody is downloading them.
Today average psytrance listener just want unrealeased killr stuff, they dont even consider albums or cd's, they say "that track is already burn" cause it was leaked and sahred over the net many time in advance.
@Fria, I respect your point of view and I agree with it but its totally against common sense. Its just a moral stand, which is very valuable, but it cant handle the changes that music industry is passing.
Imagine for a second that we have the same moral stand for envirometal problems and we wait until everybody has made up his mind and stop their awfull behavior. We'll be doomed.
Its pure evolution, adaptation or extintion.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 10:10
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On 2008-12-13 23:54, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
People who download music for free are not the clientele.
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wrong to the bone...
the scene is growing and cd sales go down , your math obviously is wrong.
this is the crowd of the music. whatever way they get it , this is the crowd.
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Sorry, no one is going to make your life easier just because you figured out there is an easier way out, downloading for free.
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and why not?? make life harder on people is just meen!
should we stop all airlines since the shiping industry loose out of it??? refuse new technology so the old ways could keep make money? sounds weird to me.
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The clientele consists of those who buy cds, or the tracks online. I do not want to cater to people who have no respect in general.
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agree to some point. with 16$ a cd some just have respect but no money for that.
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Yes, maybe we'll lose out in the end, or maybe you guys will.
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its sad you are in war with the people that actualy like the music of your label. try to see it in other ways.
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I have a feeling there just won;t be much of a scene left. Right now alot of underground labels do this out of love and for fun, so some support is required...so if people are just going to disrespect it in this manner, for sure it's going to end...
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the scene is growing all over the world. the real scene is the parties.
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Alot of excellent music this year just wasn't released, and neither is it available for free download..
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thats the artist decision , he can give it for free if he want to , no one "makes you" to go with old fashion ways like cds when you can have site and give the music.
for labels i do ask money when they want to realese my music cause they do sell the cd in high prices... if they want to make special realese for free to give in the party trust me just like on my upcoming site it will be for free.
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so really at the end of the day, ones who indulge in such downloading are just losing out eventually. People do buy cds, it's not like no one does..that does give one satisfaction and the inclination to keep making them.
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the same people that buy the cds today are the ones that downloaded the previous ones and liked it, this seem to be my main point.
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http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 10:16
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all in all the future is going to be
1.listen>like>pay
2.listen>dont like>dont pay
wich is more fair then
Pay>listen>?
all in all its allready happened its not like the war is now its over many years ago this topic is more like 2002 then 2008
im amazed to see some people still hang on to the past and think there is something better in that.
i hope it atleast make you feel better somehow hehe , cause them downloading crowd sure doesnt feel they do something wrong www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Remy [POF]
Principles Of Flight
Started Topics :
48
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509
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 11:53
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There is actually one solution to all this, it has recently been used on new sample libraries.
They watermark each sample in the library differently, then sell their libraries online by credit card only. So they then know which client had what sample library.
If the stuff leaks on the internet then they go to the leaker and take legal actions against him/her.
You probably could apply this technology to cd's and i think it has already been done actually, if you only sell on the internet with credit card from 1 website only, otherwise it would be quite complicated i guess...
On 2011-03-08 23:13, moki wrote:
listening only to free music is like having the free possibility to satisfy yourself with thousends of different free sexual acts. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 12:03
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any technology will have the technology that brakes it. nothing gets away from that.
its more about understand the mind frame of people not about how to try and stop them
if you read the article spindrift posted , you see that its discussion from old days , the problem is allready solved. use internet to spread the music as much as possible.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Remy [POF]
Principles Of Flight
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
509
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 12:33
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I agree with you. Perhaps it's just best that artists give out their music out for free.
I can't do it though, it's to much work for to little in return.
On 2011-03-08 23:13, moki wrote:
listening only to free music is like having the free possibility to satisfy yourself with thousends of different free sexual acts. |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 15:45
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Listen-like-pay is cool, but what we are discussing the fact that many people Listen-Like and Don't pay. The paying action just does not cross many people's mind. Everyone says put music up for digital download so that people can buy just one or 2 tracks. All the labels and artists who have indulged in this, atleast the ones I know, said it hasn't made a big difference at all. In fact the fee to keep music on these sites is more than what the labels or the artists make in one quarter from people who Listen-Like-Pay.
I don;t think the answer is to give music for free. I truly believe that music will cease to be available for the public, as more and more artists will just prefer to play it at parties..or we'll soon come out with a technology or internet policing that prevents illegal activities online. Because of this blatant display of piracy, of mainstream music and movies, these industries are pressuring governments to start controlling the internet more and more, Hollywood has teh money to do this, big Pop labels too, in many countries now they check computers at the airport for illegal software, and music and movies. It's inevitable. As usual Humans cannot respect, and thus are placed with more and more restrictions.
I am completely open to new concepts and ideas and ways to make music available to everyone....but unfortunately who wants to pay when they can get something for free??
**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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celsung
Celsung
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
191
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 16:58
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I love when people illegally download my music. In fact, I think I might start seeding it. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 17:18
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On 2008-12-14 12:33, Remy [POF] wrote:
I agree with you. Perhaps it's just best that artists give out their music out for free.
I can't do it though, it's to much work for to little in return.
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thinking small
there will be bigger return for those that will do it in the new millenium way. the past is the past , and cds are it. my collection is rotting in the drawr while evrything is on wav files on my pc.
read here again
http://www.forrester.com/ER/Press/Release/0,1769,741,FF.html
from 2002...
the concept is that it makes evrything bigger so dont stop it...
as artist u must know that gigs are the money or its new for you 
anywayz from 400 copies to 15000 downloads its obvious what makes more effect
also read the previous quote from infected mushroom , short version is : the more people downloading the music , the more like it. the more like it , the more buy it. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Remy [POF]
Principles Of Flight
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
509
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 17:47
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well i don't have a problem at all with people downloading my music if they buy it when they like, but like i and other have said above people don't do it.
I think money and quality goes hand in hand.
i don't know how you work, but from the moment a label says to us okay we want this track and can pay XXX amount of money. I always rework my tracks and when a label pays good i ALWAYS spend more time on the track to make it better. For us in some sense it's a matter of respect towards the label the more you pay the more quality you get.
So basically at least for me it's good motivation wise to push to make better music.
On 2011-03-08 23:13, moki wrote:
listening only to free music is like having the free possibility to satisfy yourself with thousends of different free sexual acts. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 14, 2008 20:07
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 07:48
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It's all well and good to have the want to make this music just for the love of it, but if you have devoted a majority of your free time to it, after a while you tend to lose some of your motivation to put forth as much effort, especially when your finances are difficult. There's lots of hobbyists in any genre, and that's fine, but in any form of artistic expression the cream of the crop are individuals that devote all of their free time to perfecting their craft. Time is one of the commodities that we have a finite limit on.
I don't really mind that people download, as long as there's another way they support their scene, and to be honest it starts locally. Support your local hometown act if you have one, send them an email, buy them a beer at a show, something... But more often than not the impression that I get when I meet people who don't bother to support the artists is "Thanks for the time you spent making this tune, now go forth and multiply"
One thing that completely bugged me that happened recently, was I was brought somewhere to play, and the Organizer and I had talked extensively at some festivals about me coming. I had a good feeling about this person, so I decided to come for the birthday party and throw down for them. This person had thanked me for all the music that I had done, and mentioned several favorites... The morning after I arrive, I am using the organizer's computer and I see that they are in mid download of my new album that just got released a day or two prior. Now, I didn't really mind as much that the person was downloading my album. If they had asked me, I would have just given them the album from my hard disk, in full wav. quality. No problem... But to go as far as to get me to come there and perform as a favor and then to generally have no respect for the time and effort that I put into it was for me a bit over the line.
I have very mixed feelings about labels and distributors over the past year or so. I really used to feel that the labels were the liasons between the crazy people who made this stuff and the crazy people who listened to it. I do feel that the music has taken so many directions that it would be a proverbial catch 22 if the labels were more strict about what got released. There's be just as many yahoo's on here complaining about why this artist has never released on a label. We all know taste is subjective, and everyone else's taste is exactly that.
Also I am finding that less and less labels at least toward an underground perspective are doing that much for their artists. Not to mention unless your label is a well established one, your artists are going to be doing more promotion for you as opposed to the other way around. Not so many labels are making parties anymore. Especially when it's very possible to lose more money making a party than making a compilation. (And don't get me started with the probability of getting paid at a party)
A couple of ideas did resonate rather well though. I do agree that the artists themselves could sell way more cds than somebody in a store or a web browser. A couple months ago I had a few copies of my first album with me when I went one place, and all I had to do was set the cds up on a table with a jar that had a price on it and by the end of the night all the cds I brought (10) were gone and everyone paid for each cd, and this is a cd that came out in 2006. I think the artists that travel will be able to offload their cds with a tremendous amount of ease, as long as they were good. If people didn't like your set when you played, then they probably wouldn't buy your cd anyway. As much of a pain in the ass it would be to lug around a bunch of cds everywhere, parties where the market is, not a bunch of people buying from websites...
Eventually I am planning to just handle my own music on my website. Even if people continue to pirate it, that's fine... I still will probably contribute music to labels I like and whatnot, but it's getting to a point now where the two middlemen that were the liaison between artist and appreciator are seeming more and more obselete...
These past 2 years I've dedicated solely to music and performing have been awesome, but eventually you get tired of sleeping on someone else's couch all the time. An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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