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What is wrong?
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
499
Posted : Mar 6, 2008 23:45:19
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Hello everyone...
I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong with this track. On my monitors, the sound is fairly good, but as soon as I put it out on my headphones the sound is muddy and the low end is messed up.
Is it the mix or the mastering?
http://www.xun.dk/test.mp3
  www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!! |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 00:07
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Are you doing your own "mastering"? If so what are you doing that can't be done in the mix?
Anyway, I find it is a bit muddy but much more importantly, it is way too sharp! It rips your ears out playing at low volume. Don't play this to a crowd over a PA!
Also I would say it is too loud. The kick already sounds distorted before the bass line even joins in. Why make it so loud?
UnderTow
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
499
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 00:50
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For mastering i'm playing around with the izotope ozone. It does a really good job for giving the track some more volume and fill.
I have now tried to lower the volume even more on my kick. Hope it gets better.
I am not sure what to do about the sharpnes, other than just lowering the volume of the mid and high bands... ?
Anyways , new try at : http://www.xun.dk/test2.mp3
www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!! |
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AvS
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
464
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 00:59
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The first one was by far better. Test2.mp3 has no punch in the kick and the attack is all gone.
Try a totally new kick sample. The one you use now has some strange stuff going on in the low/lowmid area. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 01:04
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Are you using the exciter? If so, turn it off. 
When "mastering" your own tracks, all you should really need is a bit of compression and a touch of limiting. Anything else should be fixed in the mix.
UnderTow |
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
499
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 16:00
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Ok, so I trashed that project, cause I figured I had to go train my compression and EQ'ing.
Now still I have the same problem. On my monitors it sounds fairly good, but on my headphones, the low end gets muddy and sounds like it has chorus on it... 
I have uploaded a new http://www.xun.dk/test.mp3
This is a simple kick+bass+perc.
On the kick:
Compressor : -14dB threshold / 5.0 Ratio / 5dB gain / 1ms attack / 200ms release
EQ: Cut hard at 30Hz and hard at 3500Hz
Peak controller with standard settings
On the Bass:
Compressor: -18dB Threshold / 4.2 Ratio / 5dB gain / Medium knee / 5.5ms attack / 450ms Release
EQ: Hard cut at 30Hz and hard cut at 13000Hz
Also added a sidechain which is triggered by the peak controller on the kick, being a compressor with:
-60dB trheshold / 6:1 Ration / 0dB gain / 5.6ms Attack / 200ms Release / Hard knee.
On the master I put nothing but a standard Waves L2 Limiter.
www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 16:39
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If you could record the same snippet but without the compression and EQ it would be helpful for comparison.
EQ and compression is not much use on a sound if it's not good to start with, but can be used to enhance a good sound somewhat.
Otherwise if you can describe what is wrong with the kick and bass you use to start with it's easier to give advice about how to treat it, but I think the best way to direct your effort is to find sounds that sound great without any compression and EQ.
To me it it sounds like the kick lacks a bit of snap, which is natural considering that you cut out the top end and use a compressor with 1ms attack.
That could make it hard for it to cut through enough in the mix.
The bass sounds like it swells a bit much around 65hz.
A small dip there (2-3dB) and a small boost around 100Hz should make it a bit clearer.
Maybe also a tiny bit shorter notes could maybe help.
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(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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heretical
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
77
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 17:30
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god this drives me nuts. to me this single thread represents everything that is "wrong" with current psytrance.
there is nothing "wrong" with that clip. It sounds like an interesting start to interesting tune. Why you would want to spend hours now getting it to sound like the over produced crap that is "production standards", stripping every ounce of dynamics and interesting part of the sound out so that it sounds exactly the same as any other track, no matter what notes you play or what synths you use is totally beyond me.
The production pissing match of modern psy is just so bizarre. Its like if we were making music on acoustic guitars we would just strum a few chords and then see who can eq/compress the sound the most, but not even care what music was actually being played on the guitar. |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 18:31
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LS.
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
130
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 18:34
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-07 17:30, heretical wrote:
god this drives me nuts. to me this single thread represents everything that is "wrong" with current psytrance.
there is nothing "wrong" with that clip. It sounds like an interesting start to interesting tune. Why you would want to spend hours now getting it to sound like the over produced crap that is "production standards", stripping every ounce of dynamics and interesting part of the sound out so that it sounds exactly the same as any other track, no matter what notes you play or what synths you use is totally beyond me.
The production pissing match of modern psy is just so bizarre. Its like if we were making music on acoustic guitars we would just strum a few chords and then see who can eq/compress the sound the most, but not even care what music was actually being played on the guitar.
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Yes. Who defines what perfect production is? Why do we strive and want so badly to sound the same or close to everyone else? Does it make you fit in with them or that type? I just dont know. It fucks with my mind as when i produce i cant help but steer towards something i like and try get close to that even though it was done by someone else.. I cant seem to think out of the box nowadays as everyone is crammed in that box and i cant seem to move. GRRRRRRrrrrrrrrr..
*Hhhmmmmm WTF, i ponder* |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Mar 7, 2008 19:45
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
499
Posted : Mar 8, 2008 02:03
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-07 19:45, Fragletrollet wrote:
seriously guys, tracks mainly sound different because of content and not compressor/limiter-tweaking. Both play an important role, but tweaking is polishing and content is what the track really is about...
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Spot on!
I've tried changing the compression of the kick abit, setting the attack to 2ms.
I shortened the length of the bass notes, chose a different kick.
I think it helped alot. Does anyway, when I listen to it on my headphones...
what do you think? ( http://www.xun.dk/test1.mp3 )
www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!! |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Mar 8, 2008 11:23
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Hi XuN,
In the above "test.mp3" I first noticed the toms should have lowcut on it.
I downloaded a lot of your music earlier ago. Very nice stuff by the way. Nonstandard basssounds, characteristic stuff.
Sometimes I noticed some troubles in bass equing and sometimes a bit of eqing in general was necessary. But my general impression was positive. Just keep on going, write music, production will follow. No need to worry I think you are good.
My tip. Forget compression for a while. Its just making things complicated. Concentrate on EQing and shaping your sounds from the synths.
Since a talk with Electrypnose last summer, my opinion has become as his: compression is something for the recording world. in the synthesizing domain we can do it from the source.
I use almost no compression on anything anymore. Kick has to be good from the sample, bass you do with the envelope from the synth. all other sounds need eqing before compression anyway.
If I use compression I use it on drums or sounds I need to be snappy, but most of the time I can do this with the synth.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
499
Posted : Mar 8, 2008 14:46
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Thank you for your kind words...
I'm glad you liked my work...
Good advice I must say. I will try to focus more on the EQ'ing from now on. But I still want to be able to graps the mechanics of the compressors, cause I want to (some day) be able to fully understand the making of sound.
www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!! |
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heretical
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
77
Posted : Mar 8, 2008 18:38
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Quote:
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It fucks with my mind as when i produce i cant help but steer towards something i like and try get close to that even though it was done by someone else.. I cant seem to think out of the box nowadays as everyone is crammed in that box and i cant seem to move. GRRRRRRrrrrrrrrr..
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Just stop listening to psytrance. The most pyschedelic music i've heard in the past few years has certainly not been in this genre.
perfect example, check out doublelionrouti by this morn omina
http://www.myspace.com/thismornomina
It doesn't have even close to the "good production" of psytrance but blows the shit out of any new psytrance as far as creativity/musicality/originality. Geez, imagine actually thinking about those concepts when making mind blowing music, who would have thought...instead of banality/random noise/copy cat follow the leader paint by number.
Shpongle 1 has perfect production IMO. The production though is transparent, it sounds like a band of weird instruments playing togather and not something so over polished that it doesn't even matter what the content or synths being used are.
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