minus
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:13
thanks disko for that self explanitory vid,helped clear or loads of doubt and questions. now my question is what is a maximiser, and lets put it this way, if i slap on a maximiser after an inflator, will it tighten the slackness at the low end,what exctly does a maximiser do?
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:19
I slap it after the inflator (not the Waves maximiser, but the Sonnox limiter and use Logic's dithering to dither down to 16bit).
It will not tighten the slackness of the low end, it will only make it louder.
minus
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:24
so if we eq it tight,then an inflator and maximisering, should be a decent arse to walk around with?
thx for the vid again!but we dont need to dither do we, i mean not untill we have to print on physical cd, i mean since its gonna be all digitla, and say live setup,, so dithering is like no use no?
Nectarios
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:25
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:36
Well there is some truth about doing too much compression in the mix will make the bass change character in the mastering stage if the mastering is done by today´s standard which is LOUD which means a lot of extra compression, distortion and heavy limiting. I would not recommend it. Instead think of other parameters before you go to extreme, like the frequency content of the track, which key it goes in.
If you listen to tracks released around 2003, that was a good year for clean and balanced mastering. In my opinion.
Example one:
Year: 2003
Wizzy Noise - Tropic Remedy(Key A, 142Bpm)
Average Peak: -4,5
Average RMS: -10,5
Perceived loudness: -14.5(of course intensity dependent)
__________
Year: 2008(Also a good year)
E-jekt - Commited(Key F, 145Bpm)
Average Peak: -0,6
Average RMS: -8,0
Perceived loudness: -13.0
As we can see the E-jekt track is louder, both in peak value and RMS value. And just a tiny bit in Perceived loudness. What would happen if we put the Tropic Remedy track to same Peak value and same RMS value? lets see
Perceived loudness: - 12.0 (Average value) Yes thats more than the E-jakt track that is in F key.
Now the Perceived loudness will vary cause of the intensity, so each section will have its own average value.
So when comparing your tracks, do make sure they are in the same key.
And if you want to have more Perceived loudness do work in a higher tone instead of trying to squeeze it to bits just to gain perceived loudness.
And regarding bass, If you open the filter you will perceive the sound as louder, more clear, if you close it you will Perceive the sound as less clear, more round and smooth.
The case is that often you will want the bass to be round and smooth and in a controlled area, so you close the filters a lot, But you still want the bite that a more open filter will give, but that will give you too much pluck and make the sound, too open. Now by adding distortion you can sometimes give it that extra bite to come out of the mix without being perceived as too much.
Compression or not, you must listen, and like aciduss say, it can be very much about coloring the sound than anything else.
But do remember that too much compression in the mix stage will make for lesser compression in the mastering stage as it will make the sound flat.
Also different mastering engineers has different preferences, some like it round and smooth, some like it edgy and bright, some like this, some like that.
But most important is what the track likes and wants.
I think we cant fight the laws of physics, And if you want it loud it is your right to do so, but this dont mean everything has to be
Peak: -0,2 or -0.0 and even above(clipping)
RMS: -6.0 or 5.0
still the Perceived loudness will not gain so much, only the track will suffer from this. And there is a volume knob that is meant to be used, and even Digital Dj,s has a automatic make-up gain in Traktor.
But yeah, it was about bass. And its much about if its a Sine, Saw or Square. If its C, D E or B ect. And most of all its about what works for the track, There is absolutely no reason to compress a very constant soundwave, if not for the purpose of using the coloring of the device and its gain knob.
Mostly artists use the compressor as a loudness tool, i.e they use the gain knob. This goes back to what Locrian was talking about...
minus
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:36
is the sequence in which you layer you effects,compressor,inflatros,limiters,dithering ,retc etc etc .. is that sequence chain relevant? or can we slap any in any slot,of course using common sense.?? or the quality of sound gets fucked up if the chain is not in the right order?what i mean is is the sequence rigid? or can we experiment in the sequential positions/layerings?
PoM
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 17:58
the key is to have a idea of the sound you want and how to go from the sound you have to the sound wanted. the more you get familiar with your tools the more it get easier.
telling you what to use and how to use it is non sense cause maybe you are after a totally different sound and use a very different source, all these stuff you have to listen by yourself and follow your ears and do what sound best to you.
to make a good bassline you just need to tweak synth and a eq then other processing are just bonus imo it wont make a crappy bassline sound amazing, just saying this cause sometimes we are looking hard for the truth when it s just infront or eyes with minimum tweaks .
Ascension
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 18:20
Quote:
On 2011-02-22 17:36, minus wrote:
is the sequence in which you layer you effects,compressor,inflatros,limiters,dithering ,retc etc etc .. is that sequence chain relevant? or can we slap any in any slot,of course using common sense.?? or the quality of sound gets fucked up if the chain is not in the right order?what i mean is is the sequence rigid? or can we experiment in the sequential positions/layerings?
The chain simply determines which goes first (so something like a limiter should be last if you want the final sound to not go above it). You'll see different chains for different artist since it's based on preference.
minus
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 18:23
ok one last serious question:if you get a hard on/boner,you know dick goes on a honk while listening to some sound you just made, is that a good sign? or somethign bad?
peace
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 18:46
I use a limiter on the 24bit "version" of the waveform, after that is the dithering to 16bit.
And yes getting boners from sounds can only be a good thing
daark
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 20:41
very nice said Electricpollution-Record
Key is very important and which harmonics are in.
And a little reminder for all the it sounds good it works.
If it sounds "GOOD" at your place it doesnt mean shit, think about that. If you have a good bass preset also doesn't mean anything about you knowing using a compressor.
As i said you can experiment but yeah i think i was talking more to beginners but also to pros and i wanted to mention that more process means less quality period
all the rest was already said .
Use what you want as long as you know what you are doing. Using sc1 preset bass enchance for killer bass formula is just retarted.
Also i have a very bad habbit of putting ozone with a preset on the master and bring the shit out of the volume knob up.
it sounds better? no
All i wrote is just my point of view.Comprehened it as you wish.
PoM
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Posted : Feb 22, 2011 21:06
as long you get the sound you want , i remember some sample you posted haven t listened on monitors but it was sounding good to me,there was room for a good improvement at mastering.
jekvan
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Posted : Feb 25, 2011 17:46
you guys certainly managed to confuse the hell out of me:)
