what is the relevance of work in a spiritual life?
minus
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Posted : Sep 3, 2010 19:56:21
if one is to lead a life devoted to the divine as in if the attatchments to the material plane are dissolved and the being is nothing but the divine singularity of union, then on this material plane, his work becomes divine itself? and if so, lets say the work is either being a teacher, or a writer, or a painter or a musician, artist, whatever the being may choose to become, then the work this artist does is divine? and if so then how is this level of workings sustained in the work environment in the context, does the being use the surrounding energies?( for example an experience he/she has in daily life)that which is availiable? or shall newer manifestions of energies is essential?(as in harnessing from this richness of content)the question being that, does the work itself become like a prayer or divine offering to the divine? or is the work the reflection of the being itself?does the surroundings at work, being other people semi-awake, effect the nature of work?as in do these energies influence the work? how should one approach work?
mk47
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Posted : Sep 3, 2010 23:07
work so everything is comfortable enough for you to concentrate on the spiritual stuffs , if thats whast u wana do .. just that the `comfortable enough` line it get blurred a lot , really , no one here be happy with a shanty and a cow to milk for dairy .. try and do , just yu try ans do once :B
minus
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Posted : Sep 9, 2010 20:23
thats just mumbling, need a helpfull explaination, instead of some confused rambling, something with clarity, maybe previous experience?cause this holds lot of importance right now for me, since this is the beginnings of my journey, if anyone would share his experiences, any elders care to share, i'm all ears!
bomz
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 9, 2010 21:09
work makes u feel important and has an effect only on ur ego self..
whether you work or dont work doesnt matter
you can sit and do nothing and contemplate on vast emptiness and go into void and be at complete ease there and go on doing about your things effortlessly--
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
minus
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Posted : Sep 9, 2010 21:35
how can you say that work has effect only on ur ego body? that is not right at all.when the ego is dissolved, what is left ? and that will work for who? if there is no ego? it will work for the divine itself, cause then the divine will work through the being or no? ofcourse that inner stillness is obviously required, but you dont need to go sit in some forest or cave. ofcourse it wil be easy to find quiet and peace in some forest or sitting alone, but to maintain that inner peace, in chaos, in this world, is the real challenge, to maintain that inner peace while living in a material world is it. or no, it does not make any sense to sit and do nothing, but contemplate on vast emtiness, rather harness that inner stillness for the divine purpose of existence , and be it. i still need some guidance on this as i am unclear how to approach this with certainty
bomz
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 10, 2010 16:25
winners take chances
loosers work for change
working for change is for those who have lost something or want to get back on their old standing..they are unable to let go of their past.
why should anyone change? let things be the way they are and see the magic happen see the how effortless without work the dead leaf from the tree drifts away and another one grows ...the water freezes turns into ice and then that ice melts and then that water heats up and evaporates and magic RAIN- floods ---effortless...u think nature works hard to give those gusty hail storms and dust tornados? WOrk is for looosers ...in nature you only take chances...change your underwear if it gets dirty throw it away ...no work no effort...effortless existence
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
minus
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Posted : Sep 11, 2010 09:37
winners? loosers? i dont think you and i on the same page bro, all is one or no? how can there be winners loosers? yes maybe my ego might sometimes play triks, by calling itself divine, and confusing me, but i do tend to realise when that happens, but as for the truthi have no concern in winners or loosers, or any kind of standings, i just want to understand the flow on nature and beone with it, in the sense be it, work it, but that still has material separation, and thats what is impeding or blocking or blurring
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 11, 2010 13:26
those that overcome their ego are winners
those that dont overcome their ego are loosers...
winners take chances
loosers must change
even in spirituality their is an element of competition but its mental gymnastics of sorts to enhance and expand..after a while a lot of peace and shanti get boring even for the buddha..thats why shiva likes to destroy things .choice and change you have plenty..you want to work for change you want to work out of choice..working is the same as gambling- you are betting something good will come out of it and you will convince yourself to do it-
read the hymns to the Gambler from the Rig Veda..
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
minus
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Posted : Sep 11, 2010 22:08
the words that you are using to express yourself, sound like your understanding of the whole unity of the universe and all the various elements and energies in it, are meager, there is no sepeartion , there is no looser, no winner , all of us, are same, one,but only a very few of us try to probe and unravel the true nature of this reality we represent , i am a student, i want to learn, you talk of Buddha as if , he was some ordinary being,you wrote "after a while buddha gets bored of shanti and peace" , sorry to say, i dont think you have a clue as to the divinity of his state, i have studied the vedas and the upanishads, and the buddha's teachings, the hyms to the gambler in the rig veda discloses the desires of man, how weak he is, his misery, what does that have to do with this topic.
then you have written something about "even in spirituality their is an element of competition " , competition with who? with yourself? you talk of Inner stillness and absolute quietitude inside the being,, and then you talk of inner competition?mental gymnastics? the being becomes alsolutely quiet,, attenttive, he becomes aware, he watches everything with inner stillness,, you dont need no inner gymnastics to expand and evolve,, you live within the infinite source.
then you say "thats why shiva likes to destroy things , cause peace and shanti get boring!" my understanding is this is:: Chaos is essential for creation, observation of chaos leads to order, and order is creation,,, but chaos and creation are not seperate, they are the same,, there is no Light trying to overpower darkness,, or darkness trying to overpower Light,,, the darkness and light r nothing but the same,, if you look at the whole perspective, the complete picture, they are the same! helping each other,merging and melting into each other, same as chaos and order , same as destruction and creation
work for you might mean something else, for me it has different meaning alltogether. i dont think you have a clue about what i am asking actually brother, even if you have, you seem to be giving opinions of your definitions of work,, my questions are not concerned with definitions, or loosers or winners, my questions are directed towards the inner stillness, and how should one utilise this in everyday life, as everyday life Work, may include being a teacher, or an artist, or a musician...or some thing that the beings is doing out of passion, out of love for the divine, to help others is same as helping yourself, i would still like some guidance in the matter! if anyone cares to divulge or help, i'd be gratefull
peace and bomz
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 12, 2010 00:05
to unite you must be divided otherwise how will you unite? or what will you unite with?..u have to be separate before you merge..and once your merge or unite it is also possible to demerge and divide..spliting of an atom..you can teach without being a teacher just as you can learn without being a student, if you look at it from the perspective of unity...your passion will flow automatically just like the bullets from a kalishnikov and what you have to teach will pierce..as far as helping goes you are always helping you just fail to recognize those things you do as "help"..thats from the unity persepective again...
now to have fun with unity and to see how well unity serves you..DIVIDE it, break it up into pieces and identify those pieces and start making connections ...end result you know is unity..so either ways you end up WINNING..so why not take chances and gamble ...be yourself and dont change a thing just be patient and have poker face
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
Maine Coon
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Posted : Sep 12, 2010 15:21
Quote:
On 2010-09-09 21:09, Xolvexs wrote:
work makes u feel important and has an effect only on ur ego self..
whether you work or dont work doesnt matter
you can sit and do nothing and contemplate on vast emptiness and go into void and be at complete ease there and go on doing about your things effortlessly--
I can’t choose between two ways to respond to that.
The first way is in the spirit and the letter of this discussion:
“upon considering every facet of xolvexs argument and after consulting with the supreme being about the validity of the statements put forth i still cannot come to terms with gaping logical holes in this post i doubt any amount of references to lord siva or utterances of grossly overused sanskrit words will change the fact that this argument simply does not make any sense either the author is writing in jest otherwise known as trolling or he means something entirely different from what he actually states or he speaks from his own experience in other words it’s pretty annoying either way as one has to realize that xolvexs is either a half-baked trust fund hippie or a bitter disgruntled welfare recipient with nothing in life to look forward to but enough means to not worry about his immediate survival otherwise it is entirely possible that he is actually a rather cool dude who just happened to enjoy f..king with everybody’s minds i sincerely hope it’s the latter”
The second way to express myself here is a direct quote from my Irish friend:
“What a crock!..”
Maybe I'd prefer the latter expression: at least it does not lack capital letters and punctuation marks.
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 12, 2010 23:50
Loving you is driving me crazy
People say that you were born lazy
'Cause you say that
Work Is A Four-Letter Word
So change your life
There is so much I know
That you can do
Come and see ...
Wide-awake
And take all of this love
That is waiting for you
If you stay
I'll stay right beside you
And my love
May help to remind you
To forget that
Work Is A Four-Letter Word
I don't need
A house that's a showplace
I just feel
That we're going no place
While you say that
Work Is A Four-Letter Word
So change your life
There is so much I know
You can do
Come and see ...
Wide-awake
And take all of this love
That is waiting for you
If you stay
I'll stay right beside you
And my love
Might help to remind you
To forget that
Work Is A Four-Letter Word
Oh ...
I don't need
A house that's a showplace
I just feel
That we're going no place
While you say that
Work Is A Four-Letter Word
So change your life
There is so much I know
That you can do
Please come and see ...
Wide-awake
And take all of this love
That is waiting for you
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
Fometrius
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 03:28
Quote:
On 2010-09-03 19:56:21, minus wrote:
if one is to lead a life devoted to the divine as in if the attatchments to the material plane are dissolved and the being is nothing but the divine singularity of union, then on this material plane, his work becomes divine itself? and if so, lets say the work is either being a teacher, or a writer, or a painter or a musician, artist, whatever the being may choose to become, then the work this artist does is divine? and if so then how is this level of workings sustained in the work environment in the context, does the being use the surrounding energies?( for example an experience he/she has in daily life)that which is availiable? or shall newer manifestions of energies is essential?(as in harnessing from this richness of content)the question being that, does the work itself become like a prayer or divine offering to the divine? or is the work the reflection of the being itself?does the surroundings at work, being other people semi-awake, effect the nature of work?as in do these energies influence the work? how should one approach work?
Well,it is a question which can be answered in many ways depending on who you ask,people who are following " the spiritual path" experience it in different ways,so the most of us view the personal relationship towards spirituality in their own way.
But i will share my thoughts about your questions.
It goes in phases,the so called "wanting for enlightment" or "seeking" or what ever people wants to call the proccess of seeking for answers and question about the existence of oneself and everything around oneself.
For some people it is a very strong yearning inside to ask the questions about the bigger picture for some it is not.For some it is a life long dedication for some it is like a hobby for some people it is something between and for somebody it is nothing.Our own proccess also goes into waves,or phases.
We are also in different phases of procces in the ladder towards which is described as self realization or enlightenment.Some may be at the top of the mountain,some are climbing,some have just started climbing,some dont climb at all.
Since you are writing about the singularity of all life and how one should be in relationship towards that and also the dissolving attachment to materia it gets quite interesting. Since this is one tricky part of the journey.
There might not be a clear answer to this,different approaches towards this fits different persons,and different approaches fits different phases in each persons personal life.It has much to do with every persons personal situation and phase in life .One has to listen to oneself.I think one should try to feel rather than to think in many situations. Nothing wrong with letting other people help you with ideas about directions in which way the boat is sailing, but in the end oneself really has to feel which way do i really want to go to.And how much in every direction do i want to go.
In many situations,it can be good to be in the middle.One does not have to completely go into one direction.To "pick a side".You do not have to sail in only one river,you can sail in many at the same time.In other words you dont have do be "like this" or "like that",dress or behave in a special way to be "spiritual",spiritual is only a word,a pointer towards something.A word which is understood through the associations one has with the word.
There can be other peoples ideas about what spiritual is,their own concepts,different countries and different timelines,have their own interpretation what divine and spiritual means.You dont have to follow those concepts to live up to the image of being spiritual.
If you are spiritual it has to do with you exploring the inner world,everything inside you and trying to understand as much as you can about life and existence.You dont have to dress or behave in a special way to do that.
My point here is just that being what we call "spiritual" is deeper than how we dress,what we listen to,where we live,when we live etc.Being spriritual is not like fashion or a music style,listen to this,look like this and behave like this and you are spiritual.Spirituality is not like that,it is not how you look ,what you are wearing etc,it is the process beneath all of that.The process inside.Spirituality goes way beyond the surface of what things appears to be.
Fometrius
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 03:29
Back to your question
"his work becomes divine itself? and if so, lets say the work is either being a teacher, or a writer, or a painter or a musician, artist, whatever the being may choose to become, then the work this artist does is divine? "
To say that all work from artist,painter,writer etc is divine is not something i would say.But one could
perhaps say that must work is collected from
fantasy,every persons experiences with life, and the subconscious ,the collective subconscious and all different parts of the mind.Some persons music,paintings,books etc can be understood or feeled as "divine" or "spiritual" or whatever word one want to call it.
The concept what "divine" is alone something that must people have very different thoughts about.
But in some tracks there is just this presence of something bigger.The feeling of singularity and oneness that you speak about in the beginning of your text.The core essence of what spirituality is all about. Yes ,in this cases it can be felt like some "work" are like an extension of this bigger unity of everything.
We are just a drop in the sea,yet we are made of sea so we are the sea.
And when it comes to the attachment issue i think it is very depending on your own personal situation.But yes spirituality is much about to seek inside yourself,instead of outside yourself in terms of material things outside you.Spirituality is more about the inside world then the outside world and therefore it is easier to go deeper inside if one is less attached to the outer world.
Spirituality is about to go beyond the situation of the material,timebound personal world and to enter a "world" ,(state of being,connection with source,understanding), beyond what is here and what we can grasp with logic thinking.
But there is nothing wrong with having a life one enjoys when it comes to materia and in the same be "spiritual",or what one feel like calling it.Why not have two foots in both worlds.The opening of one door does not have to mean the closing of another.That can be good to have in mind when approaching this questions that we are talking about here.
A bit compressed and shorter answer to your question is that all work from artist,music producers of all sorts,painters,all form of art creation,writing etc is of course not always divine,but it may contain explorations of the human psyche and contain directions and experiences of deep trance states etc.But does that mean that one can call it divine? My answer is no.Yet it can be expanding,exploring,etc.What i would call divine is when it is beyond the person,when it feels like something bigger than the artist himself or herself.
Yet, in some "work" as said before it feels like their is an extension of something "else",something bigger,yet something one is a part of.The core of oneself,a feeling of connection with everything,a feeling often described as god.
How one wants to be integrated with this feeling,how close one wants to get to it,to understand it, is much up to the person.To be stuck on trying to understand it in logic thinking i think in many cases often will end up like a maze.It can create confusion.
Since what is words,a word is a pointer.That is all a word is,something that points towards something.It can never show something,it can only point towards something.So therefore in logic thinking you can end up with alots of directions which never leads towards were you wanna go.Maybe you can feel something but not describe it,but perhaps you can describe it(better) with music or art.Then the "work" at least go beyond what the words can explain.Or closer to what you want to share then the words did.
So much "work" can be like a pointer towards something,one has to get there by oneself but the "work" can be like a shovel for digging up something,like a guide.So much work is like something pointing towards this feeling of union that we are talking about,then many want to put the word "divine" "spiritual" etc on it.In music it is like the music itself contains this feeling,energy,emotion etc.It works like a totally different kind of pointer then words and painting and all kind of art.All kind of "work" is pointing in it`s own way.
But when listening to some music it feels like it is this feeling ,that we are talking about, unfiltered coming straight from the speakers or headphones.Then if feels like the "work" is a part of what many experience as divine.
To your question "how should one approach work? " , i have to say that you have to feel yourself.Try to feel how you want to do instead of think what you want to do.I dont see that doing work excludes a "normal" life,with all it benefits.
One has to listen to how oneself feel,what directions in life one wants to take.When doing "work" one should not think so much about it or try to analyze it, just let it happen. If you work is "divine",spiritual, a creation of the subconscious,a reflection of your personal life and experiences,a mix of this or that or everything or something else is not the important thing, really,it is about how you feel when creating and when looking,reading or listening etc to what you have created.If you like it.Then if other people like it,it is nice to but that is not the main thing.Every one will view it in different ways to.
To your question
"or is the work the reflection of the being itself?"
I say it can be.
and to
"does the work itself become like a prayer or divine offering to the divine?"
I give the same answer.It can be.
It is a question about how the work is and who that is having the experience of being in contact with the work of the artist is.The emotion,experience etc happens in the meeting between the work and that who experience the work,play a cd for a cat or a dog or someone who dont like that music and the experience as the work as divine will not be shared.
Think of "work" as a key, a key that can open a door, then maybe not everyone can use it.The key may be working but cant be used by everyone.This means that it is working for some but not for everyone,the same goes for "work" in relationship to the one who experience it.
This music scene,electronic music,fits perfectly in this example.
Xolvexs
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 09:46
but guruji we are living in a time where short txt sms type sermons are the norm
- can we have short 5 sentence summary
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
