| Author
|
What is Live? What isn't? - a point of honor?
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:00
|
[quote]
On 2008-12-04 10:58, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 06:39, the daleks wrote:
The DJ can be playing a bunch of sounds and loops on top of a section of kick and bass filtered out from someone else's track and make a completely new arrangement from that...in which case it is more live than someone having a pre-sequenced live set tweaking some knobs in real-time.
|
|
so, a kid combining existing loops from other musicians in garage band is a musician now?
Maybe that DJs does something/more "live" but he is still no musician. recombining someoneleses loops still makes him a DJ. it's another category and can't be compared to the work of a musician.
If it was his own loops, then he would be a live act, musician and then it could be said, that he does more live than the filter tweaker.
But if this isn't the case these are two different categories, and they can't be compared. just as a bike can't be compared to a car.
The DJ didn't spend hours on cubase creating that basslines, invested 1000 of hours to learn how to get it fat etc.
Sure he possibly does creative work, admirable work, but it still is something else.
making music, creating loops, beats, basses, melodies still is something very different to just "using" them.
I can understand if somebody prefers a loop combining DJ to Filter Tweaking live act, though.
On the other hand music which is combined from someone eleses music is somthing completely different, than for instance the music that I do somtimes. Music of the kind I do sometimes can't be "combined" from loops. (examples 1 works, example 3 doesn't) So it again depends a lot of the music and the artist and if looping recombining is an option for that sort of music at all.  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:24
|
There is a big difference in producing and performing. Dont mess things up here. 
|
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:30
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 12:24, Dennis the menace wrote:
There is a big difference in producing and performing. Dont mess things up here.
|
|
sure is, but are you serious?
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:30
|
|
serious about what?
|
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:31
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 12:00, subconsciousmind wrote:
so, a kid combining existing loops from other musicians in garage band is a musician now?
|
|
You think all DJ's are kids and artists mature adults, or you just trying to skew the picture to enforce a weak point?
Even if the DJ does not create the loops, is he less creative than someone making tracks with sample CD's and presets?
For sure you can take parts from existing creations and make those into something new.
And what makes you think that just because someone DJ's that he's incapable of creating his own material as well?
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 12:00, subconsciousmind wrote:
Maybe that DJs does something/more "live" but he is still no musician. recombining someoneleses loops still makes him a DJ. it's another category and can't be compared to the work of a musician.
If it was his own loops, then he would be a live act, musician and then it could be said, that he does more live than the filter tweaker.
But if this isn't the case these are two different categories, and they can't be compared. just as a bike can't be compared to a car.
The DJ didn't spend hours on cubase creating that basslines, invested 1000 of hours to learn how to get it fat etc.
Sure he possibly does creative work, admirable work, but it still is something else.
making music, creating loops, beats, basses, melodies still is something very different to just "using" them.
|
|
I do create my own material and DJ...and there are a lot of artists DJ'ing and DJ's creating music.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that one excludes the other.
And in practice using elements from someone else's track is not different that using a pre-recorded drumloop in your own track.
Sure, you don't have to be a producer/musician to DJ, but what I'm talking about is DJ'ing evolving to a state where you arrange music in real-time.
If you created all or none of the elements used yourself is not really an important distinction in that case IMO since the result is a unique creation anyway.
It's like complaining that someone making a nice and complex collage didn't take all the photos used for it himself, and hence he's not an artist.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:39
|
Spindrift.
I think you have to read my post again. You get your answers there.
I never said DJs combining loops are kids. but if DJs recombining some one elses loops are musicians, then kids combining loops in garage band are musicians too.
All I say that you are comparing two different sorts of creative work.
What you do is musicians work, since you create your own loops and recombine them. what the Djs do with your loops is DJs work, not musicians.
Whereas of course there is grey in between.
Dennis
What do you want to say with your comment?
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 12:58
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 12:31, Spindrift wrote:
It's like complaining that someone making a nice and complex collage didn't take all the photos used for it himself, and hence he's not an artist.
|
|
I think there is the misunderstanding. I don't say they are no artists. I just say they are no musicians.
As somebodys who combines someones elses photos/paintings to a collage is not a photographer, or painter.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:03
|
|
a dj without musical skills would probably be the same as a jukebox or a random playlist in winamp
|
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:06
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 13:03, Dennis the menace wrote:
a dj without musical skills would probably be the same as a jukebox or a random playlist in winamp
|
|
so, you say the musical skills of a DJ are the same of those of a musician?
If someone can DJ- he can do music?
If someone can play the guitar he can play the keyboard?
Similarities don't justify equalisation
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:18
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:23
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:37
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-04 12:39, subconsciousmind wrote:
What you do is musicians work, since you create your own loops and recombine them. what the Djs do with your loops is DJs work, not musicians.
Whereas of course there is grey in between.
|
|
The point I'm making is that there is a grey area....I never said that all DJ's are musicians.
If the skills is exactly the same or not is not really interesting. The skills needed to perform live is not the same as producing in the studio either, and the skills needed to make different types of music is not the same. What I'm talking about is DJ'ing at a level where you certainly is creating music hence you are a musician in my book at least.
With the example of the collage artist, of course you cannot say that he's a photographer if he never taken a photo, but he is a graphical artists just like the photographer and they both have a lot of skills they have in common that they need to get a good result. Making a distinction between auditory artist and musician is quite a boring discussion and only semantics.
If you combine elements to a new track you are creating music in my opinion...not using an identical skillset as when creating loops....but if the result is a unique track I still call it a musician.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:37
|
can also say it like this, it doesnt matter how big your dick is if you dont know how to use it 
|
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:37
|
Dennis, for me thats no "vs"
The first one is a good DJ (for that kind of music)
The second one is a fake live act.
I can't compare that.
I can compare live acts to live acts and DJs to DJs. everything else overcharges my sense of justice.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Dec 4, 2008 13:39
|
|
my point was to apply your musical skills to a djset to become more creative on stage. with todays technology there is no restrictions to combine a dj set to become a live
|
|
|
|
