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What is "drive" in a track and how to achieve it?
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 02:30
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I always thought "drive" described straight (not swung/grooving) rhythms. Swing usually doesn't sound good (if it's even noticeable) at higher BPMs, so imo:
147-150+ bpm + no swing + tight sounds = drive
If this doesn't make sense, automate a track to go from a good amount of swing to no swing at all immediately at an even bar..you'll know what I'm talking about.
Depends on what you consider "drive" to be anyway..not a very musical term.
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psyaudionamics
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 02:39
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On 2008-12-03 02:30, Kane wrote:
I always thought "drive" described straight (not swung/grooving) rhythms. Swing usually doesn't sound good (if it's even noticeable) at higher BPMs, so imo:
147-150+ bpm + no swing + tight sounds = drive
If this doesn't make sense, automate a track to go from a good amount of swing to no swing at all immediately at an even bar..you'll know what I'm talking about.
Depends on what you consider "drive" to be anyway..not a very musical term.
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yeh swing is better for rnb and old school new york type of rap beats and latin music but i don't like how it sounds with electronic music myself, but perhaps just a lil can give u a nice groove atleast with house music my 2 cents |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 03:20
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I was recently given a techno tune to remix and the original was on 16Cswing. I started the remix with a 16th beat quantize, yet was asked to keep it on the same swing pattern. Was a bit of a pain chopping up some 16th beat audio files I did, back again in Apple loops to convert to 16Cswing, but the final groove was plodding along pretty well.
Haven't done any swings on psy-trance, yet.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 03:27
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In this quest for groove, drive and snappy beats i have asked a lot of questions but still can't create a psy rythm with swing. Some times i make some of the ohats to begin some ms before the actual step and it had helped but not in the way i wanted.
When i try to tweak my trancey rythms i often end up with a feeling of house music, not speedy, sometimes funny and not trancey at all...
another question... if some of my percs are swinged or not quantized, should my bass/synth notes or other sounds in that particular step be aligned to the swinged one? I guess so cause other wise it sounds messy...
Well... any other advice towards a better groove control & drive is welcomed.
cheers |
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psyaudionamics
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 04:48
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no aciduss i would not add it to the synths or bass, keep the bass kick and bassline quantized for psytrance the hi hat can be offset to either give the track a layback groove or moved up to give it a feel of urgency, more mayhem hope that made sense, in electronic tracks swing would better suit house or trip hop and for sure drum n bass... maybe try working on a house track, house track definitly benifit from offsetting and not too much quantize... mostly work better... why not try to do a tribal house track and experiment on those genres before trying it out on a psytrance track or chucks why not try a rnb track i know u probably don't like that genre but man with all honesty it can teach u alot of groove every genre got something to offer production wise... also do urself a favor and pick up a hans zimmer sondtrack... the man is sick as hell when it comes to drive sure its movie scores but its drive at its best and the way he mix it up really is inspiring i look at his as my inspiration.. he mixes electronica with real instruments unlike anyone else... and he aint using hihats nor snare mainly orchestra drums timpani's gongs, and ethnic instruments some great scores of his are found in the movie gladiator, the last samurai and pirates of the caribbean... listen to it with an open ear and give it a chance even though its not ur genre u usually listen to... also some enya tracks got a beautyful flow and barely got percussion... versatility is where its at... i apply swing on percussion, hi-hats, shakers, conga's for sure and maybe on a synth if it sounds good, trust ur ears in the end only u know what the final results ur looking for. but getting away from psytrance and working on other genre's can really open new doors in ur production stages, space is also very important and us electronic producers tend to forget that with all these crazy gadgets, dats why i listen and produce rap beats they have thought me the art of space, which is very important in creating drive if u got a song that just is crazy all over then u cant accent the main strong parts that u want to have drive, some have moments in the track that have minimal sounds and filters quite close and then u open em as the track starts to climax heard alot in epic trance and its a very simple and effective techniques which just simply works, u need moments of space and tranquility to then explode with mayhem that my friend creates drive because if its just energy you can't have that contrast. remove, add, sculpt it... it can be hard at times to translate into words what power music can cause to us, but thats just the beauty of it  music is wordless haha yet portraits emotion... look at music as art u need dark colors in other for bright colors to standout, a image which has contrast and light n different shades is definitly more appealing than an image that only is dark or bright... too much reverbs and delays are dull so maybe have some dry sounds or maybe add some distortion... this already getting a bit off topic but can all be meshed together to make u understand it all better, u need different textures in ur music and elements that just pop out once in the track, its elements of surprise is those lil bits that make a great track seperate itself from others, CHEERS |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 09:48
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Dunno about having some of the parts on a swing and some on 16th beat. I tried that with this remix I did and having some of the top end and percussion on 16ths and some on 16Cswing, sounded messy.
I ended up having only the kick, snare and crashes on 16ths and everything else on 16Cswing and it sounded much tighter.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 10:36
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Go to a party and stay all night and day, until you are really tired, then go home and use the inspiration (and the rest of your brain or whatever of yourself is left over  ) and start writing a track. I have found parties an excellent inspiration many times. It does of course help to have good artists on that party...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 10:53
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^+23
The best tunes come from that 2-3 hour period after the drive home while you can manage to stay awake. I've even considered taking a notepad to write down all the ideas I get listening to so much music..probably should next time.
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gutter
Inactive User
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 11:04
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Quote:
| Posted by : Upavas
Posted on : 2008-12-03 10:36 Go to a party and stay all night and day, until you are really tired, then go home and use the inspiration (and the rest of your brain or whatever of yourself is left over ) and start writing a track. I have found parties an excellent inspiration many times. It does of course help to have good artists on that party... |
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 did that last week , after long time (summer) and have to praise my grateful thanks again to Tristan ,, man he just opened my eyes, played so much wonderful psychedelic, not full-on, not dark or anyway the type of "commercial" music nowdays,, he played psychedelic, distortion, wide spread music with character,, from last week i have revised most of the things i had in mind for psychedelic and start again(!) to search for different paths and ways of mixing the sounds.. sorry for the off topic , i had to express this , cause i was amazed, all these older artists keep remind us what true psy is (and all these England folks are so psychedelic indeed, i think you can hear Simon whispering in every English psychedelic music).. next day i was thinking of the old 80's track "last night a dj saved my life"  though in my situation this could translate to "last night a dj saved my mind" (i think i must quit fullon and start thinking more about chaos)... thank you so much again Tristan...
exactly what Upavas wrote above i think happened to me and im really serious about everything stated above
it really really helps to keep having the path into your mind 
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psyaudionamics
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2008 13:06
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On 2008-12-03 10:36, Upavas wrote:
Go to a party and stay all night and day, until you are really tired, then go home and use the inspiration (and the rest of your brain or whatever of yourself is left over ) and start writing a track. I have found parties an excellent inspiration many times. It does of course help to have good artists on that party...
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LOL yeh wateva is left of u after the party LOL  yup thats me after the party hehehe |
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psyaudionamics
IsraTrance Junior Member
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546
Posted : Dec 3, 2008 13:13
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On 2008-12-03 09:48, pipe&slippers wrote:
Dunno about having some of the parts on a swing and some on 16th beat. I tried that with this remix I did and having some of the top end and percussion on 16ths and some on 16Cswing, sounded messy.
I ended up having only the kick, snare and crashes on 16ths and everything else on 16Cswing and it sounded much tighter.
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I concur sir, and sounds bout right but u never know, u know the saying learn the rules and then break em for the most part ur right but so often a track needs that crazy edge, best bet for everyone try it out if it sounds good go for it if its shit dump it...
but yeh pipe n slippers i know exactly what cha mean i been there before, and it can sound ackward... but it never hurts to try
CHEERS |
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qirin
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Posted : Jan 4, 2009 02:13
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Well... any other advice towards a better groove control & drive is welcomed.
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in cubase and live (and probably sonar and logic but I am not sure) you can set a timing offset for each track. try giving your kick drum a timing offset between -1 and -5 ms, and then play with the other track, staying between +5 and -5. this can make a huge difference, and can give you a feeling of motion without seeming housey.
also, try taking a sound that repeats in a track and vary it slightly over the course of one measure. for instance, take your closed hi hat and run a resonant hipass filter over it, and then vary the cutoff frequnecy or resonance just slightly. or do the same with the kick drum.
you can also try varying enevelopes; for example, load four instances of the same open hihat into your drum sampler and then vary the attack and decay envelopes just slightly.
compression and send channels make a big difference, too. try running bandpass filters or parametric eqs over every channel in your track to create space, and then create a "bleed" track that receives a small amount of signal from each track. run some reverb or distrotion and a filter over this track and adjust the frequency of the filter to fill in the empty spaces.
or create a send track with a hi pass or band pass filter run over it and route everything to it except the kick drum. put a sidechain compressor on the track and route the kick drum to its sidechain input.
compression is a really important tool. you can make several submix tracks, i.e. one for percussion, one for sound effects, one for synths, etc. and run different types of compression over each of them.
if you want me to explain any of this in detail pm me. |
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plexon
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 05:32
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open hihat and off beat sound (stabs)(303 tb on fullon tracks)
bassline of course and all t he revers sounds right befor the brake after 4 big bars the sign that something must come in or change in the track and thats my 1 cent for ya'll |
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 13:05
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I believe a track maybe could have to parts with percussion elements , one part which plays and simpler rytm and that second part (the contrast)with more "drive" and intensity.Maybe the drives in the percussion part comes automaticly after you have got you kick and bass right, not sure |
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Airi
Airi
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 16:38
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hey guys,
Yeah me too I agree, the drive in a track is very important+
I agree with you, Kane, in fact in higher bpm's it's not so good to put swing in your rhythmics, it kinda takes the power away.
In my opinion, drive equals to the power a track evokes, when you play it, i don't mean some blasting power but just that feeling, that when you turn off the music, you still feel the groove going on, so when i make music, I often try to take care about that.
I would suggest: -try to "build up" each aspect, that means bring each sound to a higher level, as quirin stated it. For example, low->high filter sweeps, increasing volume, expanding the frequency spectrum with new sounds.
Also strong and catchy sounds, well placed tend to rise up the energy level. (Creates the feeling that you want to hear that sound again, which evokes a kind of tension, that keeps you stomping till it comes again...so don't wait too long before you loose the "drive")
greetings |
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