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what is dark psy
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Oct 5, 2010 23:27
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Cool. I am all about playing what I like and not playing what I don't like - couldn't agree more. 
My arguments were probably a bit misplaced here because I attributed some views to you that you may not actually have. These arguments were directed more towards DJs who build a whole phylosophy to justify playing 3 hours of psycore. Chakras, cosmic farts, descent into the 11th dimention - all kinds of fancy explanations. C'mon, just say simply: "We like it hard and fast" and get done with it. 
(Don't rip me apart for chakras and cosmic farts. As one of my favorite movie villains said: "Every joke contains a bit of a joke" ) |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 00:21
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On 2010-10-05 21:57, DJ Uhm wrote:
Ans if you weren't talking to me with this post, "I don't begrudge people who hold superstitious beliefs; I only get angry when they try to spread those beliefs. Superstition is the cause of much suffering in the world, so I hope you can understand why I have an emotional reaction to people spreading it.", then who were you talking too? |
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Well, that didn't refer to /you/, the real you that is, that refered to the person who I thought you were
Never mind, it's all a moot point anyway |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 00:59
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This thread blew up since I last posted in it! Holy shit!
So much fun stuff to talk about. Firstly, in response to Dj Uhm about crystals and belief systems, etc. I am very, very good at suspending my disbelief and going with the flow at festivals and other gatherings that are not my own personal space. If you want to be in the psy scene for any length of time and actually be friendly with most people, this is a required skill....because otherwise if you are a skeptical person like me then a large portion of your interactions will degrade into arguments about pseudoscience and new age malarchy. You will not make many friends using this method, and certainly not in any altered state. In those situations, I am all about being extremely open as who am I to say what is true and what is false? If I walked up to every crystal vendor at a psy show and immediately opened with 'hey, cool looking rocks you got here, did you know that the air surrounding the crystals is just as interesting and significant as the crystals you're trading/selling? oh yeah, and you're full of shit' then...yeah I'd be a shitty closed minded person.
However, I am a big fan of sober deliberation and analysis of what 'facts' I have gathered along with the sum total of my experiences. If my experience points to there being a fundamental unification and intrinsic connection between all things in the universe, or if my experience is meeting alien entities then I take that into consideration along with my more intellectual/analytical side that considers various different theories about how the universe operates - and the point where those cross is the hub of my idea structure (NOT a belief structure...Dogma/Kevin Smith/Chris Rock had it right....changing an idea is easy..changing a belief is trickier)
That sober deliberation is where I see a lot of new agers/'spiritual travelers' fall short - that their beliefs are not based on anything except a random youtube video they found or article they read on the internet- its just blind acceptance. This blind searching for spirituality in whatever form it comes without that sober deliberation and analysis is one of the things that I do not respect (can you tell I used to be a philosophy major??)
However, there is a risk of travelling to far to the opposite side, as is seen in people like Richard Dawkings whose views seem to be a backlash against the belief structures he was brought up with and not necessarily anything past that. To me, Atheism is a completely bullshit arrogant stance to have, as saying THERE IS *definitely* NOTHING is just as foolhardy as saying THERE IS *definitely* SOMETHING. Both pre-suppose knowledge of something that is innately un-knowable. More people should just be aware and come to grips with the FACT that WE.DO.NOT.KNOW. We probably never will. Why is that so hard or difficult for people to acknowledge?
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1659
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 02:58
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-06 00:59, willsanquil wrote:
WE.DO.NOT.KNOW.
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Well, that’s exactly the thing. Nature abhors vacuum. What we don’t accept based on our knowledge, we accept based on our belief. Claiming that you don’t have any unsupported beliefs is usually just a copout. If you talk long enough to an agnostic, you’ll discover that he falls into one of two broad categories: vaguely religious (more often than not – monotheist) or politely atheist.
The first kind will eventually acknowledge that he believes in “Something” but does not quite know what “It” is or how “It” operates. You may even get a response (after the third six-pack  ) like “Yeah, I guess I am religious – it’s just my own personal religion”. A lot of these people are scientists who haven’t bought into the randomness idea and came to believe in that “Something” (Einstein is a good example). Others were raised moderately religious but their PhD got into their head. Now they think it’s not cool to profess their beliefs over a humming particle collider.
The second kind is simply a politically correct atheist. They will say “I don’t know if God exists” and they will think “There is no God, but there is also no point in telling you that”. I observed three subgroups in this category: scientists who bought into the randomness idea, Marksists and “recovering Catholics”.
That’s all. The only real agnostics I’ve ever met were people who genuinely did not give any crap about the whole issue. Their answer about their beliefs is not the standard “Maybe, I don’t know”, but a more laconical “Huh?..”
Everybody else has some beliefs on this issue, whether they tell you or not.
Where does it leave us? Read the First…
(Must. Not. Wave. Those. Stars. And. Stripes. Again.  )
So, if we all have beliefs that are not based on any evidence, it would be pretty stupid to bang each other over the head with them. It’s all just different flavors of our imagination about how the World works. Looking at the same thing at different angles, that’s all.
PLUR all the way, in other words! 
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MR VOMERS
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:13
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psytrance perceived as dark, would be what darkpsy is in a nutshell...no?
we all have different strokes and tastes and definitions...it's just music that makes you feel funny.
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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ohmy
Fractal Cowboys
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50
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285
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:28
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well, some people will call anything dark, if it doesn't fit into a full on or progressive set....
its just not a fun label to have added to your music...
how bout just calling it Phat trance? or phat beats? or phat beets....
id be more psyched to play a phat beets set, than a darkpsy set...
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:45
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I first posted this in the "Trance" section in a thread about Atriohm but i think that it fits here to.
This is the thing that can be disturbing ,there is lots of childish ,"black metal" ,evil wannabe dark psy who NOT,i repeat ,NOT is the same thing or will take you to the same "places",create emotions/vibes/energy ,inner travel etc, as acts like Atriohm and other quality ,psychedelic hard psytrance. They just want to be psychedelic.One of the sad thing is that some people dont see the difference.When they hear a fast bpm ,low octave base and not some full on notes they go "this is evil dark psy".Seems like some people wanna box everything into a "dark psy " map just because the tracks got a certain bpm,bass octave etc.
For me personally,as an example,i enjoy some artist that are called "dark psy" but i dont listen to horror psy and people wanting to do same black metal psy.I am not at all into that.And therefore i think it is sad and creates confusion to mix ( categorize ) acts like Atriohm with those i just mentioned.
I see that many people talk about "fight your fears " etc. Sure,that is a good thing.But that is just one thing,and i dont really see that as the most important thing.Is one supposed to fight ones fears everytime one listens to music that one can find scary? What happens when one has fighted the fears ,what else is there to fight then? Perhaps fighting the fears can be viewed like,"fight the guard that blocks the entrance to the " inner world ", to fight the fear of wanting control and understand the situation and to fight the fear of "me not being what i thought i was,instead me being a part of something larger", "that all of this is just an subjective illusion and the real reality is beyond what we know" and instead just ride on the psychedelic waves and see were they takes you.
I dont find Atriohm`s music scary at all,and i am quite sure that they had no such intentions.I think they just want to make deep and psychedelic music which makes the listener go inside oneself,explore the mind,get into a trance state etc.I cant see any kind of "evil" here just layers and layers of complex , mysterious and intelligent sound design.
But i can see what we call evil and dark in other so called dark psy acts were the producer has a clear intention of creating something evil.
Then what is evil ? ,how does evil sound ? I think those questions would belong more in the "Spirituality" section then here.
But very short ,when we already are at it.What evil is i would say is when the person gets seperated from the feeling or emotion/vibe/energy that unites us all,the thing that makes us feel empathy and connection with all living things.When one is cut off from that,then one could be evil.To be evil means to only think of oneself and what oneself wants to do instead of care about others.Just like a cancer cell in a body,the cell only care about the own cell and not the body.
I think that satan is a symbol for the ego and god is a symbol for the synchronization and connection between everything.That on the deepest plane of existence we are all one thing but on the surface we are all sorts of different things.
So this "knowing" or feeling of connection and compassion with life
(we see this in it`s most pure form when we are very young,when we get older we get more filled up by the ego,although it depends on which person we are talking about ,but generally it seems to work like that)
gets into battle with the ego.I think the Good vs Evil is a symbol of this.The inner war between our ego,me,my name ,what i want etc with a unpersonal unselfish feeling of belonging and connection with everything else.
The tricky part can be to integrate this two ones,to end the war and be at peace inside, instead of having this "two faced inner battle" thing.Good against bad.My raw ,hungry ego against my true being.I cant destroy me ego totally couse how could i then live,eat etc.I have to have some sort of ego but one could benefit from trying to merge this two ones.To integrate the illusion self (me,my body,my name etc) with our higher being,with our "true self".
Also hate and rage can be experienced as something evil,but then one has to remember that, that is something everyone can feel and sometimes it is good ( in most cases it is not).We need more love here on Terra,especially for nature.We need to feel the unification and belonging with all of creation,not just other humans.That emotion/energy is far to big to try to incapsule.I think that letting that emotion breach the barriers between everything and everyone is a part of the "psychedelic mission".If one want to define the psychedelic mission as something that will make us more mature and grow and take further steps into understanding and synchronizing with life.
back to the rage and hate issue,if someone attacks you and your family are you evil because you feel or act with rage towards that one to protect yourself and your family ?.Is a bear who is trapped trying to defend her offspring evil because she feels a strong rage towards those who is threating her and her child.It is all a question about why the emotions are there.We are all capable of feeling "evil" emotions when we need so to defends ourselfs and those around us etc.But as said,mostly, hate and rage is bad.
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:46
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Some psychologist`s speak about the "shadow" self
( especially Carl Jung,which i by the way find very interesting ,and i would not be surprised if there are some others here who shares the interest for this great thinker )
which i think can be interesting when we talk about what we are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_%28psychology%29
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The shadow may appear in dreams and visions in various forms, and typically 'appears as a person of the same sex as that of the dreamer'[8]. It is possible that it might appear with dark features to a person of any race, since it represents a distant and indiscriminate aspect of the mind. The shadow's appearance and role depend greatly on the living experience of the individual, because much of the shadow develops in the individual's mind rather than simply being inherited in the collective unconscious. Nevertheless some Jungians maintain that ' The shadow...contains, besides the personal shadow, the shadow of society...fed by the neglected and repressed collective values'[9].
Interactions with the shadow in dreams may shed light on one's state of mind. A conversation with the shadow may indicate that one is concerned with conflicting desires or intentions. Identification with a despised figure may mean that one has an unacknowledged difference from the character; a difference which could point to a rejection of the illuminating qualities of ego-consciousness. These examples refer to just two of many possible roles that the shadow may adopt, and are not general guides to interpretation. Also, it can be difficult to identify characters in dreams - 'all the contents are blurred and merge into one another..."contamination" of unconscious contents'[10] - so that a character who seems at first to be a shadow might represent some other complex instead.
Jung also made the suggestion of there being more than one layer making up the shadow. The top layers contain the meaningful flow and manifestations of direct personal experiences. These are made unconscious in the individual by such things as the change of attention from one thing to another, simple forgetfulness, or a repression. Underneath these idiosyncratic layers, however, are the archetypes which form the psychic contents of all human experiences. Jung described this deeper layer as "a psychic activity which goes on independently of the conscious mind and is not dependent even on the upper layers of the unconscious—untouched, and perhaps untouchable—by personal experience" (Campbell, 1971). This bottom layer of the shadow is also what Jung referred to as the collective unconscious.
'The shadow personifies everything that the subject refuses to acknowledge about himself' and represents 'a tight passage, a narrow door, whose painful constriction no one is spared who goes down to the deep well'[16]. If and when 'an individual makes an attempt to see his shadow, he becomes aware of (and often ashamed of) those qualities and impulses he denies in himself but can plainly see in others - such things as egotism, mental laziness, and sloppiness; unreal fantasies, schemes, and plots; carelessness and cowardice; inordinate love of money and possesseions -...[a] painful and lengthy work of self-education'[17].
The dissolution of the persona and the launch of the individuation process also brings with it 'the danger of falling victim to the shadow...the black shadow which everybody carries with him, the inferior and therefore hidden aspect of the personality'[18] - of a merger with the shadow.
Enantiodromia launches 'a different perspective. We begin to travel [up] through the healing spirals...straight up'[26]. Here the struggle is to retain awareness of the shadow, but not identification with it. 'Non-identification demands considerable moral effort...prevents a descent into that darkness'; but though 'the conscious mind is liable to be submerged at any moment in the unconscious... understanding acts like a life-saver. It integrates the unconscious'[27] - reincorporates the shadow into the personality, producing a stronger, wider consciousness than before. 'Assimilation of the shadow gives a man body, so to speak'[28], and provides thereby a launching-pad for further individuation. 'The integration of the shadow, or the realisation of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage of the analytic process...without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible'[29]. Conversely 'to the degree to which the shadow is recognised and integrated, the problem of the anima, i.e., of relationship, is constellated'[30], and becomes the centre of the individuation quest.
Neveretheless Jungians warn that 'acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life'[31]; and even after the focus of individuation has moved on to the animus/anima, 'the later stages of shadow integration' will continue to take place - the grim 'process of washing one's dirty linen in private'[32], accepting one's shadow.
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But also,quite generally speaking about "dark psy",it can be so,probably it is,that a low octave bass line and a fast BPM has a certain "main effect" on people.It is something,big,strong and fast and it can sound furious.
I think that when people get afraid of sounds they start to associate their fear with personal stuff.So play a track that some people will find scary and they will all be scared by their own personal stuff that they associate with the feeling that they experience through the music.So then it is not the music but their own fears that they associate with the music that they dont like.
Also,something new ,a bit "alien" in terms of being very different, from what one has experienced before can be scary just because it is so different.We all know that most people ,animals etc can be very frightened by something "very exotic" or something very different ,something one not are familiar with. And that can be good some times,one does not walk roads that one does not know is safe. But one can also miss many good things if someone is very afraid of everything different.Think of how the human evolution had been if some people never asked what is around the corner and went into different "path`s in the forest".I think that the feeling alone of something new and different in many cases can be something that people find scary.
Another thing i like with some acts like Atriohm is the creating of something new,well perhaps not the k-bbb one note approach in some tracks,nothing wrong with that though,i think it fits their sound structures very well, but i am thinking about the layers of sounds and the combination of them.It breaches new territory,gives birth to something new,creating new roads in the "forest".Instead of a copy it is something unique.
I like to see psytrance expanding,i like hearing new sound concepts,to hear sounds i dont have heard before and be amazed by the music.What i dont like (most of the times) , is to hear something that is new and i have not heard before but when i put on the music it feels like something i have heard 100000 times before.
But as said there is no right and wrong in peoples taste,just like there is no right and wrong in art or food taste.If people want to hear the same concepts being done again and again,sure,nothing wrong with that,but there will also be people who wants something new and that will carry on the sailing towards untouched lands.
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MR VOMERS
Moderator
Started Topics :
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2094
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 04:25
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On 2010-10-06 03:28, ohmy wrote:
well, some people will call anything dark, if it doesn't fit into a full on or progressive set....
its just not a fun label to have added to your music...
how bout just calling it Phat trance? or phat beats? or phat beets....
id be more psyched to play a phat beets set, than a darkpsy set...
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Exactly!
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
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811
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 04:53
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ohmy
Fractal Cowboys
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50
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285
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 05:32
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konflux plays dark though
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konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 05:38
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ohmy
Fractal Cowboys
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
285
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 05:49
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your trance is so dark, when it comes time for sunrise, the suns all
phuck that
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moondoggy
Started Topics :
8
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175
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 05:59
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your trance is so dark, al jolson wears it on his face to sing jazz |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
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1659
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 07:05
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"Yo' beets are so phat, ..."
Oh, no - now I want some borsch!  |
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