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what is dark psy
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krisamadhi
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 04:23
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 05:32
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Sorry I guess my reply was a little bit too kneejerk. I was reacting more to the way he phrased what he said than what he said.
I get a grey hair everytime I hear the word "energies". I'm kind of allergic to it 
Science is a precise thing. You can't speak about it in wishy-washy nebulous terms like that, it doesn't work that way. |
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Shiranui
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 05:37
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On 2010-10-04 00:46, ohmy wrote:
wow, you don't believe in sound affecting people? and you dj? interesting.... that is cause for scientific study too
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I didn't really mean to say that I don't believe in sound affecting people. Of course I believe it, it's fact. |
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Shiranui
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 05:38
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I'm sorry for my earlier post, it had too much emotion in it. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
And going back and reading the post I was replying to, it didn't really apply to that post at all. |
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JodoKaast
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 06:44
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On 2010-10-03 03:21, Shiranui wrote:
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On 2010-09-30 18:13, DJ Uhm wrote:
Its not rocket science to understand that frequencies have an affect over us, and that energy is transferred all the time.
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It's not any kind of science at all. It's new age pseudoscience bullshit.
Measure these "energies" with some sort of equipment and write a study on it, get it peer reviewed and published in a respected journal, then come back to me.
Otherwise STFU and stop acting like you know what you're talking about.
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Well, I agree with you in a sense, when people say vague things like "frequencies have an affect over us, and that energy is transferred all the time," simply because that could mean anything to anyone.
But other people are right to address the issue that a lot of the core of psychedelic trance is in that very essence of vague communication of energy and a communal 'vibe'. I don't think you even need to go as deep, metaphysically, as quantum theory; it merely has to do with how the human brain works, and how society has been built up around that functionality (and also shaped that very functionality, of course).
If anything, it highlights how much we still don't understand about the actual mind/body and brain/central-nervous-system.
And to the point, I think this discussion obviously boils down to what your feelings on the actual word 'dark' are. Some people consider darkpsy to be a completely different animal and category than another person. My own take on darkpsy is something that, through its sounds, structure, tempo, and progression takes my thinking to an internally retrospective state of going deeper into my own psyche - sometimes forcing me to break through some egotistical walls, in a sense, that I don't necessarily like seeing reflected in that mirror of self-knowledge. But it's not something I was unprepared for; on the contrary, there are times when I feel that I need the outside influence of something like a musical shaman to take me to a place I know I need to go, but that I just don't quite have the impetus to get there on my own.
I really feel that those experiences are pretty empty, though, without a full trance occurrence of being brought back up afterward.
 http://www.soundcloud.com/Coterminous
http://www.3rdeyesqueegee.com/Coterminous |
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theDent
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 08:18
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I'm sitting there in my chair, it's 3am, the rather abstract sounding music is playing at over 160bpm, nothing horrible is happening to my body and I'm NOT having a bad trip but why the hell do I feel like something is getting torn apart inside me? A literal feeling of tearing, ripping, being sawed... But then again everything I look at, beyond the field of the multicolored spirals, seems ok. People are dancing, music is swirling, the tents and the cars and the earth and the trees, are all still there. Then why this sense of KHRRRT-KHRRRT-KHRRRT?
Frustration.
Paranoia: Is this happening to everyone? No dun look like it. It's only me... meanwhile, we're over 180bpm. Music has left the realm of familiar patterns and emotions and is off the deep end of psychedelic abstraction. My heart's racing and I'm being torn apart, all while sitting here probably looking quite peaceful albeit introverted...
...I don't know what's going on with anything anymore. The only thing that I understand is that there is a certain tearing happening and i am clinging to I don't know what and nobody seems to mind or care or noti...
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
The music speaks my torment at god knows how many decibels: confirmation, acceptance. I'm pushed over the threshold and I am...
free. |
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Shiranui
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 08:41
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Key phrase: "I'm sitting there in my chair"
Obviously the music did not make you dance. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 17:01
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theDent,
You can get all the same experiences without 180 BPM darkpsy. An alarm siren at 3 am will have the exact same effect on you. With the same kind of feeling lost and the same sudden awakening – when you realize that you’re half way to your position, fully dressed and running, but don’t remember getting up from your bed or putting your clothes on. And when you arrive to your position and 3 minutes later your CO tells you to go back (“just a system check”) – you’ll feel the same way: free and mildly pissed off. Maybe not mildly, if it happened to be raining.
Some may like these experiences. I don’t. And I don’t see why I would actively seek emulating them through music.
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theDent
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 20:47
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@Shiranui
My lovely fellow explorer, what do you think I am usually doing before approaching that event-horizon and (especially) after passing it? When you realize (remember?) on an experiential level that yes, everything actually *does* consist of vibrations on different levels, isn't it fun to have something good to vibrate to? I wanna dance to progressive psy and good full-on/twilight (and many many other genres, not even necessarily psy). I wanna consciously participate in cosmic vibration to faster, more abstract sounds. A *little* bit of this-worldly psychological challenge in the sound doesn't hurt either so the ego doesn't even want to recreate the driver's seat until the morning.
Oh and actually the key words at least for me were: "Psychedelic abstraction" and "confirmation, acceptance."
@Maine Coon
The effect and the freedom I was referring to is a bit more complicated and has a bit more depth than being rudely startled at 3am and finding out later that everything is OK. But I think I can see where you're coming from and yes, from that point of view, the whole thing degrades to a twisted form of masochism that not many ppl would actively seek to emulate. Does it sound paradoxical that Psykovsky produces some of the hardest hitting stuff and yet uses "I love you" samples, or that Goa Gil presents the mother of all darkpsy experiences yet speaks of circles of light? |
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magellan2012
Boomslang
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 21:50
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Dark psy.....
Oh u guys. How many times should i have to destroy my ego in this fashion? I can destroy my ego in silence as well (in fact, i hear ten times crazier sounds than anyone could ever produce in silence).
To be perfectly honest.... Only a few dark psy people cut the mustard for me. A lot of others feel like people with a studio with no composing knowledge, letting sounds fly outta their ass. "Oh, Im making music"...... NO.... your making noises. Seriously. I agree with the earlier statement of moderation, everything in balance. I like dark all the way up to very light. I used to like the fast, hard stuff better in fact. But now.... U gotta be able to do something new and unique. Blend two styles or more (successfully). Don't barf sounds upon me and expect to to change my life or perception. I'm way too strong to forced into a zone or vibe unless i want to. I can zooted outta my mind and still dissect 180 BPM music piece by piece unless ur really REALLY good. (naked tourist status). Nothing is really that ground breaking for me anymore.
Maybe that's my real point here. None of this is really too unique anymore. From the slower to the uber speed. None of us is reinventing the wheel, its been done.
So now what? Whats the next cycle that's gonna bring us together rather than pulling us further apart. That's the music I wanna hear. Bring IT! |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 23:53
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On 2010-10-04 05:32, Shiranui wrote:
Sorry I guess my reply was a little bit too kneejerk. I was reacting more to the way he phrased what he said than what he said.
I get a grey hair everytime I hear the word "energies". I'm kind of allergic to it
Science is a precise thing. You can't speak about it in wishy-washy nebulous terms like that, it doesn't work that way.
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I both agree with you and profoundly disagree with you. New agers throwing around terms like energy and core ascension and talking about MOTHERFUCKING CRYSTALS annoys the shit out of me. can't stand it. Most of them are just as bad as the organized religious zealots in that they are blindly accepting whatever they find on the internet in their search for spirituality.
However - your statement that science is a precise thing is just...incorrect. Science does not have all the answers, and the high end of math and science are very very close to philosophy. Try reading anything about quantum physics or string theory and try saying that its precise and not nebulous.
Many people mistakenly put 100% faith in science to explain everything, as if we have figured all of it out. What a load of bullshit. For all our thousands of years of tech advancement there are still forces out there that we have no clue about and are just as in the dark as our ancestors when they looked up at the stars and invented terms to explain whats out there. Dark Flow anyone? We have recently observed that our farthest reaching probes are being affected by a force that is completely unexplainable if our current understanding of the universe is correct.
Certainly, being skeptical and looking for the data where it presents itself is a good defense against ignorance, but at the same time you have to be open to new theories and ideas. Look at the Multiverse theory - decades ago it was embraced by science fiction/fantasy writers such as Michael Moorcock, and I'm sure many people dismissed it as just some crazy hippie's idea. Nowadays, our foremost thinkers are quite convinced that there are in fact an infinite variety of alternate universes stacked upon each other.
You want a really cool theory to look at that flies in the face of standard western thinking? Check out the Holographic Principle...ever wanted a theory to perfectly explain telepathy, collective unconscious, ESP? here you go....we are all infinitely intrinsically connected on a fundamental level. This is the theory of scientists who independently arrived at holographic theory.
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/holographic.html If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Ascension
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 01:25
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 02:30
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On 2010-10-04 20:47, theDent wrote:
The effect and the freedom I was referring to is a bit more complicated and has a bit more depth than being rudely startled at 3am and finding out later that everything is OK. But I think I can see where you're coming from and yes, from that point of view, the whole thing degrades to a twisted form of masochism that not many ppl would actively seek to emulate.
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I am not sure about “a bit more depth”. Or at least I cannot understand what it is. The process seems too similar. It’s an assault on your senses and abuse of your twilight awareness in both cases. It’s mental flagellation. In my example, it’s imposed on you by the military regime and one has very little choice but to comply. In your example, it’s imposed on you by a DJ and one surrenders to this treatment willingly. Well, I don’t know how much we can say “willingly” if the person is “under the influence” – I guess that makes a psy traveler kinda equal to a sleep-running soldier too. Both exercises can be used to “dissolve the ego”. Yet, most people will condemn the military way but accept the “psycore method”. I don’t see why. How different is the whole “descent into the darkness” approach from a teenager cutting himself with razor blades?
And another thing is that you don’t need to be assaulted by a wall of twzick-tzwack flying at the speed of light to get in touch with your “dark side”. “Proper”, old-school darkpsy, forest trance and even many progressive tracks (not to mention dark ambient) can achieve the same effect without melting your grey matter in the process. The very word “psychedelic” means that it manifests one’s soul, i.e. it hints and nudges rather than whips your soul into moving a certain way. If one needs somebody’s whip to “help” him on his journey, it only means that he is not ready to move on his own. And so we come back to an alarm siren and a sleepy soldier forced to run to his position. 
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Does it sound paradoxical that Psykovsky produces some of the hardest hitting stuff and yet uses "I love you" samples, or that Goa Gil presents the mother of all darkpsy experiences yet speaks of circles of light?
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I don’t know. In case of Gil, it’s the whole catharsis idea. In case of Psykovsky, it can be just for an augmented bizarreness effect: somebody uses babbling babies – he uses “I love you”. Or maybe it’s like how they teach you in the very beginning of relaxation exercises to tighten the muscles you’re going to relax. Sounds more like a crafty trick than a sound philosophy to me. I am sure waterboarding victims have a super-duper appreciation for light and air (if not for life in general) after their torturers throw them back into the cell. But it does not negate the fact that they are still prisoners.
False catharsis, you see?
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theDent
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 08:46
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@Maine Coon
I think we're more aligned opinion-wise as it seemed at first, from your reply I thought you are against all forms of psychedelic shockery in night-time trance but here:
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"Proper", old-school darkpsy, forest trance and even many progressive tracks (not to mention dark ambient) can achieve the same effect without melting your grey matter in the process.
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Excellent. And to quote myself:
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A *little* bit of this-worldly psychological challenge in the sound doesn't hurt either so the ego doesn't even want to recreate the driver's seat until the morning.
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No attempts to whip and melt and otherwise endanger my poor gray matter please. The little story I told referred to a well placed and sparingly used sound clip and it's usefulness in that context. I was, in my own way, agreeing with a couple of the earlier posts on this thread and the other recent one on the same subject.
Yes, as magellan said (btw, great trax) you do get to the point that your system is too strong to be forced into anything, and music that tries too hard just sounds lame even "under the influence". So, for the sake of argument and aware of the danger of over-simplification let me do a bit of IMHO:
1- Dark as in night-time, peak experience music, not necessarily negative: Fast to keep up with heightened awareness (not twilight awareness btw), abstract so it doesn't distract the listener with familiar worldly concepts and emotions, not-too-dense production so it's not too noisy to break the spirit of the night and the only familiar emotions allowed among all the alien abstraction being motifs of mystery, a little bit of suspense, a lot of wonder and just a slight dab of psychologically challenging sound-effects. It's an art of course, keeping that balance.
2- Dark as in evil, negative: Horror movie soundtrack on steroids. Too noisy, relentless chaining of one terror/gore/intimidating sound effect or clip after the other.
I think the music that generates the most complaints is the latter and I can't agree more myself and frankly, they're not even worthy of being discussed.
On to disagreements:
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Both exercises can be used to “dissolve the ego”.
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The circular argument coming back to the poor soldier-under-the-rain didn't work I'm sure you know the ego death we're talking about is quite different than the forcing of humbleness through shock humiliation that is sometimes employed in the barracks. I don't believe any unsuspected siren can kill the ego or we would be having another sixties with the CIA blasting klaxons at the ears of unsuspecting civilians.
Define true catharsis Maine, by a bit more depth I meant the difference between catharsis as applied to the poor waterboard victim and catharsis as applied to people emerging from a tough serious night of deep psycho-spiritual work into a glorious morning with a profound sense of One-ness with each other and everything. Isn't that why we trance-dance like that? If we just wanted to dance, socialize and have a good time, aren't there better genres of less-demanding, more funky/goovy/danceable EDM for that purpose? I mean... okay this is a whole other discussion nevermind.
Much respect for your time, I realize this was an unnaturaly long post. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 14:50
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^
theDent,
Excellent post, thanks. I did have some misunderstandings about what you were trying to convey earlier, but your post pretty much cleared them. I’ll try to clear what little disagreement still remains.
My waterboarding example referred to the false catharsis one may experience after 3 hours of “psycore”. It’s more of a relief that the assault is over, rather than a real cleansing effect. What you’re describing is what I would call real catharsis – it’s a result of an active process, where a psy traveler worked through the whole spectrum of thoughts and feelings and is greeting the rising sun with a better understanding of himself. Many people here will talk about parallel universes, magical vibrations and the World Spirit – but surely, it boils down to a better understanding of yourself, as without it you’re blind to the outside reality as well. “Proper” darkpsy is actually instrumental in that. It’s an outline of a path you take through the woods. “Psycore”, on the other hand, is more like an obstacle course with a sarge barking in your ear. To continue the military analogy, full on is a jogging trek you take every morning, while progressive is parade grounds. In both cases you know well in advance what’s coming up. Interestingly, there is no military analogy for Suomi. 
Getting a bit OT, I guess...
At a risk of being “ticketed” by the mods, I’ll comment on your statement about sirens. They come in different forms, not necessarily claxons in one’s ears. Bill O’Reily and Rachel Maddow are pretty good sirens too (yes, I place them in the same bin). And they do work. Just re-examine last 9 years of our lives.
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