-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 11:31
well, at least i enjoyed their show pretty much. the sound was just another story. imo it sadly depended were you stood and sadly there was not much space with good sound. and well, their music is just a matter of taste as always music is, but i found many ppl on the festival surely now would agree with you. many ppl were not really satisfied with their act, dunno why.... but hey, no matter were you stood, the sound should been far better than on youtube
anyways, i never saw their show before too and it was quite impressive to me.
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 12:52
you still cant call 2 hours of original music played by the creator a dj set. dj dont make music to begin with.
in my dj set i play texas faggott haltya reality pixie and many great artists but in my live i play only my own music. as little part of that i also add some effects on top of the music but thats far from being the main difference. btw i also use synths and effects while playing dj set.. so what i should call it live dj? the addons isnt what makes the difference for me anyhow
www.sattelbattle.com http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 16:04
^ plus over specifying only leads to more over specifying (like sub genering)
I think the main point of calling a set Live is to let the audience know that it is that person's own music being played. If you like a live set, find that person's releases. If you like a dj set, find that person's mixes.http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group
Colin OOOD
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 16:15
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 16:04, Ascension wrote:
I think the main point of calling a set Live is to let the audience know that it is that person's own music being played.
So I can pre-prepare a set of my own music onto a single mixed CD, press play, and that will by 'live'?
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 17:45
hardware rig ftw.. even someone with abelton and a controller it s not really a live to me,it can be live but it s just not the same as bringing 3 synths , a desk and some racks in the middle of nowhere
Ascension
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 18:34
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 16:15, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 16:04, Ascension wrote:
I think the main point of calling a set Live is to let the audience know that it is that person's own music being played.
So I can pre-prepare a set of my own music onto a single mixed CD, press play, and that will by 'live'?
BULLSHIT, with respect.
Live music means that the person on stage is physically doing stuff that the audience can hear. I really think it's that simple.
I meant that labeling a set as LIVE on a lineup is really there to tell them that it's their music. No they shouldn't do that obviously, but having to say things like LIVE DJ and stuff like that is over the top imo (esp cause no one will know what that means- most ppl don't even know what LIVE means). Some ppl even argue that djing pre-arranged tracks with fx on top isn't "live enough" and imo it's dumb to worry that much about what the artist is doing (again the end goal should just be for it to sound good).
Artists own tracks + fx/remixing = live. Shouldn't matter the degree of what's done imo- just that it sounds good. We can all be perfectionists and try to get people to play as live as possible, but if someone plays more live and it sounds like shit, they should do less.
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 19:09
Seems like most "Live" sets these days are just tracks loaded into Ableton, time stretched, and intros layered over outros. Then some sort of midi controller assigned to effects, and the mixer to eq the tracks. Check out Paul Van Dyk's live setup, its pretty cool
Colin OOOD
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 20:01
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 18:34, Ascension wrote:
I meant that labeling a set as LIVE on a lineup is really there to tell them that it's their music.
It doesn't tell that though. It tells them that there is live music going on on stage, which is - much of the time - just not true.
Quote:
most ppl don't even know what LIVE means
In the light of my conversations with people at our shows about our set and the sets of other artists, I utterly, completely and totally disagree with you here. Most people already know most acts are promoted falsely and don't really play live, but don't mind so much because they enjoy the music they play. People respond very strongly to us playing musical instruments on stage, and often come up to tell us afterwards how glad they are that someone still cares enough to make the effort. Most people come to trance via other sorts of music - are you gonna tell a rock fan he doesn't know what live music is?
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 20:13
I've noticed the following criteria seem to always arise every time this argument is brought up:
1) Playing your own original material vs. someone else's material.
2) Amount of pre-recorded/pre-sequenced material that is being played, vs. amount of material being played by hand/foot, etc. This all seems to tie into the notion of automation.
3) How much your can spontaneously deviate from any plans/practice/routine.
The weight of importance of these factors seems to vary from person to person.
I've also noticed people often heavily weigh any activities requiring more physical coordination as being 'more live'. The 'how' seems a big factor.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K.
Padmapani
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 20:57
imho it isn't live if they're just pressing play, but actually i don't care. if the music is good im satisfied. i'd rather have them press play and go for a drink than standing on the stage and acting though. i don't go to parties to see some show in the stage, but because i like the music and like to have fun with all the other people there.
Ascension
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 21:05
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 20:01, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-03 18:34, Ascension wrote:
I meant that labeling a set as LIVE on a lineup is really there to tell them that it's their music.
It doesn't tell that though. It tells them that there is live music going on on stage, which is - much of the time - just not true.
Quote:
most ppl don't even know what LIVE means
In the light of my conversations with people at our shows about our set and the sets of other artists, I utterly, completely and totally disagree with you here. Most people already know most acts are promoted falsely and don't really play live, but don't mind so much because they enjoy the music they play. People respond very strongly to us playing musical instruments on stage, and often come up to tell us afterwards how glad they are that someone still cares enough to make the effort. Most people come to trance via other sorts of music - are you gonna tell a rock fan he doesn't know what live music is?
I repeat my point: If you're not doing something on stage that the audience can actually hear, you're not playing live. Live means ALIVE.
I should clarify something. I totally agree with you. Live acts should be doing something along the lines of remixing their tracks (however they want to do this). However, how much of the audience will actually "hear" this? Not very many outside musicians/djs imo. It takes a pretty good ear and one thing most people aren't doing- paying attention to the sound. I think if what you're doing sticks out to most people it probably doesn't sound good (I've heard lots of over use of glitch- in ways that detracts from the overall sound- that lots of people certainly heard).
Your band's version of a live act is a rarity and far different from other live acts that just look like someone playing on a laptop and twisting knobs/pressing buttons. I do disagree about people knowing what a live act actually is. Not everyone who comes to a party is musically inclined and plenty of people are in the category of don't care what's playing or how it's being played, they just like the sound. Most people can't even hear blatant mistakes a dj makes so I would think it's a farcry to expect them to be hearing subtle changes in tracks they probably aren't even familiar with.
Maybe it's a regional difference between us or just what we've both experienced (obviously you have more of this than I do and I've only been around the states).
To sum it up: yes, artists who are playing live should be remixing, adding sounds, doing something to basically make their music sound different than just playing it from a cd. What I was trying to get at before was about over specifying what a live act is based on what they are actually doing should be avoided since this is usually only a discussion amongst artists and djs.
Look at the crowds when someone is faking a live act, do they seem to care or notice? No. Should they? Sure. The promoter who booked the live act should really care the most since it becomes and increase in fee (being one myself) .
Ascension
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Posted : Jun 3, 2010 21:28
Have to make another ranty post:
I think a live act should simply encompass the artist's skill and be what THEY want to do, not what people want to see/hear them do. Everyone has different ideas of what a live act should be, but they're not the ones who put all the time into writing your tracks and preparing a live set. With respect to actually doing something live, the idea of no rules should still apply here imo. I don't think we should put the idea of a live set into a box and make sure artist who perform live fit into it.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 4, 2010 11:13
at the end i dont care how it is called waht you´re doin there. but live simply is a fusion between an artist and an instrument. simple like that. i dont mind the possibilities other artists will miss by only mixin their own stuff like a dj or stuff.
BUT i agree with colin most ppl know what live is and i found the same ppl comin up on stage talking about the effort someone is puttin in really playin live.
soooo, no. to me a dj set (weither two hours or not) with your own stuff has nothin to do with a fusion between you and your music. what that should be called is another story and i simply dont care about how it is called at the end. but to me it´s nothin to do with live, you´re djin your own stuff. but hey, this is just imao, so never mind, never meant offending. i know many great artists, i really enjoy their music, doin that.
read somewhere else here on the forum a nice comment vince/electrypnose left on a party i guess it was: i´m a producer not a musician. so.... imo there´s more than just dj and live, and i dunno if this should be splitted into more names like we actually see done with psytrance. will be even more confusing i guess. i really dont care how others see themselves or name themselves, but i got my very own imagination of what is what. reason why i see myself more like an electronic music artist than anything else. i dont care about names, genres, names of ways presenting music to an audience. at the end it´s not important how you call it.
btw, mixing other ppls music with own fx and synths is just a dj set imo. no one said a dj only is allowed to mix two tracks and beatmatch them doin only smooth fades. pretty common in psygenres, but nowhere else like here. i dj with all possibilities i get into my fingers for about 10 years now. and back in the days of vinyl i had my own fx gear and other stuff to bling up my mix and make it more unique. ever heared of dave clarke? older stuf back in the 90´s? dood that was innovative djing (today pretty common), just an example. carl cox another great example. and guess what, they mostly (99,9%,rest is VS.) play their own stuff, anyways they´re djs and call themselves like that.
in techno genre i have to say it´s not that big deal and ppl playin their own stuff as dj are djs and not live acts. a live is simply someone coming up on stage with some gear playin his music in maybe a different way to the release. puttin up all possibilities to recreate the music on the fly in any way the one likes. it involves the ability to come into play with the crowd, reacting according to the floor. sure a dj can do this too, but he´s not able to change any type of the song. he/she can just react with the next track. a live dood can react on the fly, wait 8 bars and change annyoin hatz i.e. with hatz of another song maybe or completely different percussion or even remix the song on the fly. i´m able to change live and on the fly while a dj is only able to apply and change maybe character by use of fx or other things added. but to me it´s same like with synthesis, sometimes you need additives, sometimes subtractives.....
wow, live at the end is so much more than djin imao, cant tell you, but also just what you make out of it at the end.
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Posted : Jun 4, 2010 18:59
I think the problem does very much lie in that technology & approaches to performance have outpaced the terminology.
'Live' & 'DJ' are square pegs. I totally understand the idea of not trying to define everything, as I tend to take that approach in general.
However, as performers, and/or promoters, if we don't start using different terms, who will?
I play in a 2 man hybrid of DJ & Live. I sometimes use the term 'Hybrid PA', but mostly I just try to explain what we do, and let whom I'm talking to decide how they want to define it.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K.
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 4, 2010 20:32
^
That “2 man hybrid of DJ & Live” reminded me of videos of Parasense. You can see Alex dancing and tweaking things all the time and adding hits on drum pads. And Zolod just stands there looking shy and out of place, as though he would rather be back in his studio than at this party.
Anyway, ever since I read that OOOD is an actual band, giving live performances, I tried to understand what it means (because I can not quite imagine “Fourthought” played live). Collin, could you describe it somehow?
.
