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Posted : Nov 26, 2012 08:59
there must be a difference in claiming to be and "to be" some sort of evolved specie ) BUT today wars are a mix of spiritually motivated , staged by & for corporate gains .
THose evolving to be silent shall remain so , those evolving to be resistent shall resist and those who preach war in the name of some holy spirit are retards ......... and there is no definite answer BUT since we all are embodied spirits and evolving in own ways so what and how can this be answered ?
To focus sometimes you need to spin hard on your soul's axis..... just don't ask how and what it means ;)
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 26, 2012 18:07
it's sad but almost all the time there is a war somewhere. Like in my country where the druglords battle the goverment, or in Africa some place in Asia where a goverment is terrorizing some people.
There are economic wars, cyber wars and race wars all over the globe. And then wars a re just the violent expression of human conflict which is ever present.
So, well it's good to be concerned about fellow humans but the real question here is:
How do I deal with human suffering all around me?
If you care, you probably are already working on it in one of it's many forms. That's enough for my peace of mind.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
moki
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Posted : Dec 3, 2012 13:20
generally there is a big difference between religious people and spiritual people.
wars are usually started by religious people within a framework of religious institutions.
on the other side spiritual people tend to connect to the "cosmic source" without fixing their experience to a given archetype of god in their own culture and by transcending the archetypal projection.
furthermore, religious people tend to have never had a spiritual experience on their own.
but may be spirituality and self exploration might help to save the planet from the global crisis in a way? on the contrary , may be it is so late for a change that we should accept that nothing can really be done any more? accept that our civilization ( the civilization of material consumerism and egoistic hedonism) would end and destroy itself, as any other civilization before us in the history?
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Posted : Dec 4, 2012 22:14
Quote:
On 2012-12-03 13:20, moki wrote:
generally there is a big difference between religious people and spiritual people.
wars are usually started by religious people within a framework of religious institutions.
on the other side spiritual people tend to connect to the "cosmic source" without fixing their experience to a given archetype of god in their own culture and by transcending the archetypal projection.
furthermore, religious people tend to have never had a spiritual experience on their own.
but may be spirituality and self exploration might help to save the planet from the global crisis in a way? on the contrary , may be it is so late for a change that we should accept that nothing can really be done any more? accept that our civilization ( the civilization of material consumerism and egoistic hedonism) would end and destroy itself, as any other civilization before us in the history?
I dont think all wars are driven by religious people, maybe they use religion as an excuse, but economic and cyber warfare are examples of other type of conflict. There have been many wars just for power, territory or resources.
On the subject of change in our societies I think I can agree to some extent: the time for our current capitalist model has run out, because it is not sustainable in the long run, not because the society at large wants change.
The way I see it is that simply the natural limits on resource explotation will kick in and consumism will have to stop, people simply wont have the money to pay for stuff when oil prices reach 30 or more bucks for barrel.
The change on society at large is going to happen by necesity rather than by will. The big change will be a reduction and change in consumption habits: no car, no gas, no meat, no replacing electronics every year, etc.
In this scenario I also don't think the "free market" is going to go out of fashion still, we are going to retract to a more local based economy where customization will replace mass production.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
moki
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Posted : Dec 5, 2012 03:27
Quote:
On 2012-12-04 22:14, Login wrote:
I dont think all wars are driven by religious people,
indeed, you are right. not all of them.
Quote:
maybe they use religion as an excuse, but economic and cyber warfare are examples of other type of conflict.
using religion as an excuse is exactly the source of evil. or using religion as a protector to bless the conquerer...really desturbing...
and btw there are quite a few voices that would remind us about secret occult societies behind economics as well. this is not what i am passionate about but i take it into consideration. such a society is obviously ruled by either a deity or a self made god to devote to and be inspired by. a collective engagement towards an occult goal that lies in a supernatural projection...so thus, one might add to the perspective another reason behind the wars for territory, economic power and humans in wars. a kind of religious projection - at least a kind of projection through a hierarchical frame of reference towards the highest power.
Quote:
On the subject of change in our societies I think I can agree to some extent: the time for our current capitalist model has run out, because it is not sustainable in the long run, not because the society at large wants change.
the only question that i have in mind is, do we have enough time till then? the capitalist model might even be able to survive a few decades...
and what will happen then - if the natural ressources of the planet are destroyed and contaminated to such an extent, that it happens faster than the capitalist system going into collapse?
i mean, obviously we better find a fast sollution within the given capitalist system and redirect it right to a better perspective, because if we wait until the capitalist system collapses, this might take longer than expected and be much harder to fight against from the outside terrace.
and i know, there are pretty much excellent initiatives, projects and third sector organisations that care about the shift towards more ssustainable and green economics. it makes me optimistic, i just would like to know how much time we have, if we continue with same consumption rates - in which year exactly the natural ressources will end? if we count an average constant growth rate of 10 percent towards green economics every year - 10 percent market growth for green economics like food, tourism, mobility, cosmetics, energy, social entrepreneurship, and of course all other industries that would change their production method.
and there is simply the possibility that humanity runs out of food , depending on the third world for clean and not genetically manipulated food...
would that accelerate war instincts?
Quote:
The way I see it is that simply the natural limits on resource explotation will kick in and consumism will have to stop, people simply wont have the money to pay for stuff when oil prices reach 30 or more bucks for barrel.
it is reasonable to argue if people will soon(!) stop giving money to pay for oil...after all the financial system has been turned to a virtual dream machine of numbers and mathematical transactions. most of the money we give out do not even exist as physical piece of paper or whatever other material. this illusion could be sustained by those individuals for a while...
if most of upper middle class citizens of major consumer societies would soon lose their financial basis and stop buying things and even if they switch to green strategies within 50 years, which is what i read in the media about global introduction of green cars for the global markets...an even if it is 50 years, do you know how much could happen till then to the environment in general?
i just find it very difficult to succeed pursading people from rich and upper class frames of reference that they should consume less or buy only fair trade, or only support local independent ecologically approved food suppliers...or whatever. they would rather stay in a dream. you see, i think we really dont have much time to observe how it is happening by itself. it won'T collapse that soon.
but seriously, the crisis of the planet is more than just a political, economical or even ecological collapse. but it is crisis of the psyche! on a collective metaphysical level which connect us to human visions. visions can be anything, and sometimes even visions of aggression, war, seek of power.
and is it at that moment a spiritual experience if one connects to a collective source of archetypes of war and victory..
i mean seriously, may be it is possible to really go to an astral trip towards the minds of those who start the wars ...and just see where their mind flows, connect to the archetypes in their unconscious vision...
moki
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Posted : Dec 5, 2012 03:53
long speech, just got out of my mind too fast. to make it short, i just wanted to know if there is a database that counts the natural ressources on the planet and particularly their exctinction rates dynamically and as a future prediction? some data where we could see how much time we have with constant consumption rates untill there is no more clean water, or certain vegetables or whatever other damage because of chemical traces that humanity has left
and of course....observe a szenario where we gain control and induce the shift fast...
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Posted : Dec 5, 2012 04:16
Quote:
On 2012-12-05 03:53, moki wrote:
long speech, just got out of my mind too fast. to make it short, i just wanted to know if there is a database that counts the natural ressources on the planet and particularly their exctinction rates dynamically and as a future prediction? some data where we could see how much time we have with constant consumption rates untill there is no more clean water, or certain vegetables or whatever other damage because of chemical traces that humanity has left
and of course....observe a szenario where we gain control and induce the shift fast...
Alsmost everyone involved agrees we reached th peak oil point in some point in the last decade and calculate some 40 years before the prices of oil could collapse the economy.
But still in the general picture IMHo we had already runned out of time for an ordered transition, I think it's going to be quite chaotic for those societies more reliant on oil and which cities and consumption are designed for the industrial era.
What will happen? maybe mass hunger in the third world (china/india/africa and some parts of latin america).
This year for example there was a massive drought on north america, the US and Mexico were hit hard, corn and wheat prices are going up a lot the next year. It's climate change kicking in, people is not realizing all this.
I call it cognitive disonance: you can learn about it, but you can't internalize it and relate it to your life."The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
moki
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Posted : Dec 6, 2012 02:59
i cannot believe that we as a civilization find enough time to engage in wars, while the whole environmental system collapses and needs urgent action on political level....and i really wonder if it is impossible to achieve an agreement at least for a few decades, especially in the key war territories, until we solve some environmental issues and improve our life on that planet into sustainability and health....?
recently as i watched the news about the near east i was just strucked by the engagement that all nations invest in wars...and it was pretty sad btw too...
btw, i woudn't put china into the list of third world countries. it is even becoming the first major economic power which is the reason why obama is far more interested in china than he is in us in europe.
why is it not possible to change the mind of those who start the wars, after all, everyone is connected to everyone else through a very few corners...
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Posted : Dec 6, 2012 20:14
"We wouldn't be the first life form to wipe itself out, but what would be unique about ours, is that we did it knowingly. Why didn't we save ourselves when we had the chance? Is the answer because, on some levels, we weren't sure if we were worth saving?"
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
moki
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Posted : Dec 8, 2012 02:27
yesterday the prime minister of israel was paying a visit to chancellor merkel in berlin. luckily i had the chance to have time to watch the live stream of their conversation. i call it luck because later on the news desperately distorted the press conference...and spread totally distorted reports about how it was. the most important words they did not even send anywhere...
but it was very moving to finally see negotioations on a topic that a very few people dared to critisize on the level of international politics...i guess the states will be the only one to follow the example and try to push peace...
and i am just turning back to the impulse that almost drove me crazy about the wars and back to the reason why i felt the need to open a topic about the war...
actually i have never been more proud with a female politician and especially with a chancellor that i am now. i even felt that there is hope to change the mind of those who decide if there is war or not. this is also this female archetype within war situations, that is not there to threaten but to strengthen friendship - a friendship that is strong enough to carry controverse points or disagreements. another great news was that the hammas-chef appeared in gaza to talk about peace...
and the reason why this conflict is so important, is that it is a metaphor for a divided world. and if things move to a peaceful direction, many other territories of war will join and do the same - simply because jerusalem is not a place but a common projection of god and division. hope i dont go too far, but i guess peace in israel would project a subtile reflection onto the rest of the world and spread a vector of peace just on a metaphysical level...
Vermeee
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Posted : May 13, 2013 11:22
nowadays i believe that war is made to provide genocide. its the sake of fate. through all the ages. cells multiplyin and dyin in different shapes and textures. war is sad and miserable but it s the existence so it s the glory and joy. war is so distance from us as individuals that lives the day by day that even if/when it reaches our comunity it would still be untouchable. when it is something that you cant do nothing bout it is something that is uncontrolable in front of fate. you could gather all the revolutionary friends and fight against the war but then it would be just another war. or you could do pacifism movements but as everyone knows this have been tried before , still is , but just dont work. so i believe our duties as human beins are just to dance the song that earth is giving us. if you dont like it just change the time you live. if you like your pacifism movement go ahead and do it. if u wanna make another war on the war go ahead and do it. if you wanna just ignore it, hey...its up to you. if i were rich i would buy c4s and blow some TV transmissions tower. but you know im not . so i m just lettin the creative thinkin in here. things dont save the world anyway. but they do transmissions. war is fate. but so the other side.
http://soundcloud.com/bgos
) BUT today wars are a mix of spiritually motivated , staged by & for corporate gains .
