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Want to help with my new desktop config.? thanks!
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 00:57
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| I'm aware that what matters when it comes to hard disk performance is not how many tracks you have in your project, but how many is actually playing or being recorded at the same time.
I don't know where you got the idea that I meant anything else. |
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Hd and buss speed limits you from having more than 32 track being red simultaneously by a single (s)ata drive. truth when i said 16 stereo I did not remember exactly. It was in fact 12.
If you knew it, you wouldn't have told you know otherwise, unless its a lie. That's why I presume you didn't make the distinction.
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| For example digidesign claim that a drive that meets their requirements can do 32 tracks of 24/48 audio, and that's a pretty conservative figure. |
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Yeah but that's scsi !!!! lets not forget what you said before about the fact that single ide can handle a lot and its of no concern
I'm gonna be conservative and won't add anything else ragarding the raid thing.
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| If you are just starting out I would say there is better things to spend your money |
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Yeah I said that already  , he asked about the raid I explained  . |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 12:59
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from my experience a single sata 7200rpm drive can handle more than 80-90 short (and a couple of long)
stereo 32bit 48khz wave files with n problem.
but when trying to playback 22 4 minute 24bit 48khz wave files it was struggling to play them with no clicks and pops !
although a usual home studio work is unlikely to have to work with so many long wave files so the raid 0 is not important factor and not to forget if 1 disk crashes it takes the other one with him when raid 0 so its a pretty unsafe and can cause major problems in the project studio and raise the budget more needing another hd just for backup!
orange
 http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 14:20
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| from my experience a single sata 7200rpm drive can handle more than 80-90 short (and a couple of long) |
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Atropa: may I ask you the context. Are they different files from one another. what daw, is it possible your talkin about live with the ram option activated ?
80-90 files is a very big amount did you run a test ?
Cause I would be suprised if anyone here would play 90 audio files simultaneously no matter how short they are.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 15:44
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 21:50
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On 2007-06-08 14:20, Seppa wrote:
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| from my experience a single sata 7200rpm drive can handle more than 80-90 short (and a couple of long) |
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Atropa: may I ask you the context. Are they different files from one another. what daw, is it possible your talkin about live with the ram option activated ?
80-90 files is a very big amount did you run a test ?
Cause I would be suprised if anyone here would play 90 audio files simultaneously no matter how short they are.
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eeehh not 90 audio simultaneously about 90 audio in a track maybe 30 simultaneously and all short files!
the daw is a core 2 e6600 with 2 g ram in 667mhz a 160g sata2 drive optimized for audio!
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 21:59
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| Again your presuming things:
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I'm not presuming I made my point, and you are wrong, period.
I suggest you reread the whole thing, and the link I posted, you've just posted the same link which confirms it all. |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 22:15
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i will also be building a new pc soon for motherboards i am considering the Asus P5B Deluxe and the P5W DH Deluxe with either E6600 at 2.4 ghz or E6700 at 2.6, i've heard good this about both of these boards anyway can suggest something? |
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The p5w is a very good motherboard if you want to overclock. You can really gain great power with this one . it has a lot of tweaking possibilities.
I really did push my cpu.
The p5b is not as good as the intel I mentioned earlier on this thread, it is not as stable and has less interfaces like usb and firewire.
The intel has 2 ti firewire and 10 usb on the board, which combined with its stability makes it one hell of a mobo for audio |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 22:22
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On 2007-06-08 21:59, Seppa wrote:
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| Again your presuming things:
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I'm not presuming I made my point, and you are wrong, period.
I suggest you reread the whole thing, and the link I posted, you've just posted the same link which confirms it all.
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Do I need to quote them again?
What's so hard to understand about this part:
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Internal IDE/ATA & SATA drives meeting the Hard Drive Requirements listed below are qualified for up to 32 tracks per drive at 44.1/48 kHz with Pro Tools|
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Does it say 16 tracks there?
Does it say 24 tracks there?
You claim that you cannot run more than 16 tracks at the same time on an IDE disk is misinformation plain and simple.
I can point out some benchmarks where they get more than 32 tracks as well, but I guess there is not much point since it seems impossible for you to admit your wrong even when you get opposing facts presented to you in black and white.
And btw, your assumption that 24 mono files = 12 stereo files performance wise is also wrong.
A stereo file is one file and hence will be read faster than two individual files, which should be obvious to you if you know how a hard disk operates.
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 22:31
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| Internal IDE/ATA & SATA drives meeting the Hard Drive Requirements listed below are qualified for up to 32 tracks per drive at 44.1/48 kHz with Pro Tools| |
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You'll notice that nothing is listed below therefore I wonder which drive does it.
but if you dare looking at the bottom graph comparison, you'll find that the only drive doing 32 is scsi
while the ide run 24 track max.
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| You claim that you cannot run more than 16 tracks at the same time on an IDE disk is misinformation plain and simple. |
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First of I explained that I'm talkin about stereo tracks. second I didn't say you can run more than 16 since I explained that it could be stretch from hd to hd.
and third I' m right since the company you mentioned first (digidesign) clearly talk about a 24 track limit per drive to ensure it works.
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| And btw, your assumption that 24 mono files = 12 stereo files performance wise is also wrong. |
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prove your point ! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 22:46
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On 2007-06-08 22:31, Seppa wrote:
You'll notice that nothing is listed below therefore I wonder which drive does it.
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I think it's pretty clear.
The listed track counts is using digidesigns own solutions, and hence they specify test results for them.
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but if you dare looking at the bottom graph comparison, you'll find that the only drive doing 32 is scsi |
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Not what I can see...it simply says that it's Test results with Avid & Digidesign SCSI Storage Options.
Nowhere does it say it's the only drives that will reach that track count.
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while the ide run 24 track max.
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Ok...here we go...third time I quote this....we'll see if you get what it says this time.
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Internal IDE/ATA & SATA drives meeting the Hard Drive Requirements listed below are qualified for up to 32 tracks per drive at 44.1/48 kHz with Pro Tools|HD systems. |
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If you read that as 24, read it again and you will notice that it says 32.
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prove your point ! |
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If I did dig out an article explaining the fundamental facts of a hard disks operation I guess you would still claim "look it clearly says that it doesn't matter if you read from many different locations of the drive at the same time, it's still just as fast".
So why bother?
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 23:05
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there is 2 comparison chart :
scsi and firewire. Firewire runs ide drives. thats why they did not add an ide cause they're about the same.
I told you that already , but you did not read obviously.
24 track max. while scsi goes to 32.
I mean you must be doing it in purpose ......
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| If I did dig out an article explaining the fundamental facts of a hard disks operation I guess you would still claim "look it clearly says that it doesn't matter if you read from many different locations drive at the same time, it's still just as fast".
So why bother? |
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well mister expert I'm tired ........
you've put this quote....
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| Internal IDE/ATA & SATA drives meeting the Hard Drive Requirements listed below are qualified for up to 32 tracks per drive at 44.1/48 kHz with Pro Tools|HD systems. |
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...without ever being able to tell which drive does it....
On the other hand there is a graph by digi that explains it all...... bu you cannot read it.
You want to explain me about hd but you quote the same thing all the time, because yourself you do not have a clue.
Since you don't want to prove yourself right I will try to prove you wrong but with no quote. A simple explanation might convince you(hopefully)
The amount of data being loaded for a cycle will be double for a stereo track than a mono ,therefore there is double the strain on the drive. its really as simple as that.
And you'll notice that digi only talks about mono track why is that?
if a stereo track does react differently why they don't mention the amount of stereo track that can be handled ?
This was good fun, but I'm not gonna convince you and you are certainly not gonna convince me. so how about we leave it here |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 23:11
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Ok, since you edited you post now let's me address your reformulation:
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First of I explained that I'm talkin about stereo tracks. second I didn't say you can run more than 16 since I explained that it could be stretch from hd to hd.
and third I' m right since the company you mentioned first (digidesign) clearly talk about a 24 track limit per drive to ensure it works. |
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You didn't mention stereo in your post where you claimed max 16 tracks, so I would have thought you meant mono, just like think that digidesign means mono since they don't mention stereo anywhere.
I doubt you'll be able to find any modern 7200 rpm drive that can't handle 16 tracks, in that case I think there is rather something wrong with your configuration or it's in need of defragmenting.
Digidesign only mention 24 tracks on their firewire drives, but specifically mention 32 on an IDE drive living up to their requirements.
Anyway....I think we exhausted the subject and anyone getting worried about that they will run out of tracks unless they get a RAID configuration can be assured that with a decent drive you should get a plentiful enough track count if the rest of your configuration is ok.
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 23:13
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You did not read anything i posted obviously you're just picking .
lets leave it here. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 23:32
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On 2007-06-08 23:05, Seppa wrote:
there is 2 comparison chart :
scsi and firewire. Firewire runs ide drives. thats why they did not add an ide cause they're about the same. |
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Again, the reason is that digidesign doesn't sell IDE drives so there they haven't listed the performance charts.
But they do mention it elsewhere...but I will not quote them a fourth time.
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I told you that already , but you did not read obviously.
24 track max. while scsi goes to 32.
I mean you must be doing it in purpose ......
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Ok, since you still go on trying to use their FW figures for old FW400 cases to claim that IDE drives have the same performance I do another digidesign quote form their product information for their Avid MediaDrive rS80:
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Supported track count (per drive) with Pro Tools LE systems: 32 tracks per drive at 48 KHz/24-bit . |
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http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/firewire.cfm
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you've put this quote....
...without ever being able to tell which drive does it....
On the other hand there is a graph by digi that explains it all...... bu you cannot read it. |
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If you could read you would be able to figure out what drives does it.
HINT: look for the words "requirements listed below" in the quote I gave you and then look for the paragraph "Hard Drive Requirements".
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The amount of data being loaded for a cycle will be double for a stereo track than a mono ,therefore there is double the strain on the drive. its really as simple as that. |
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No, it's not as simple as that.
If you are reading files located on different areas on the drive the heads need to move to get to the different data, hence it's faster to read one file than two, and 16 files instead of 32.
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This was good fun, but I'm not gonna convince you and you are certainly not gonna convince me. so how about we leave it here
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As long as you stop spreading misinformation I'm happy to leave it.
Maybe it's fun for you, but not for the guy who takes you advice to heard and spend money on a RAID configuration based or your misinformed opinion when there was really no need for him to have one.
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 00:03
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Please read carefully !
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| As long as you stop spreading misinformation I'm happy to leave it.
Maybe it's fun for you, but not for the guy who takes you advice to heard and spend money on a RAID configuration based or your misinformed opinion when there was really no need for him to have one.
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Don't make me say things I didn't.
I told that he did not need it for a start. And I explained under which circonstances its needed.
You do not read what I write, thats really annoying.
Atropa was right the size of the file does matter. You will read more simulteneous track with small files than with long files that covers the whole track length.
So I will take back the 16 track count cause the way you work has an influence.
But do not forget that you brought the digi into account, and they do mention a 32 track limit. which I beleive brings us in the region of 16 stereo tracks.
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| If you are reading files located on different areas on the drive the heads need to move to get to the different data, hence it's faster to read one file than two, and 16 files instead of 32 |
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One file is not one data. A file is composed by many bits of info. The hd does not recall files but datas. it will recall more datas for a stereo file than for mono file.where and how its access depends on many factors.
If the hd is fragmented it will take longer to get the datas out. because you might have a single file where its data are all over the hd.
In the case of a defragmented hd you might have the datas of 2 distincts file in line and therefore go faster.
I don't know if I make sense to you. I but I hope so.
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