PoM
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Posted : Aug 7, 2010 14:48
i listened to your sample , i really don t like 1, 2 seems a bit better with the pump after a short listen...the major difference seemed to me the timing of the comps not much about color... this test show nothing really, it s easy to make some outboard sounding less good than some plugs or maybe your comp is not suited for that job , or maybe it sux ..now if i turn you a 909 snare into a acoutsitc kick with my distressor i wonder what plug can do that.. even if it s totally uselless it show you the snap it get and the amount of compression it can eat.
listen to that track , it have the special magic touch, maybe it have been done only with plugins offcourse some guys do magic with plugs , but to me it smell the great vibes i love that you get with some outboards wihotu much work, let not talk about the mix it s about taste ...just the warm thingy and separation and depth
if you guys tell me it sound like a usual itb mix,then i don t get it really (but like i said maybe it s done only with plugs but it s harder ,need more work than with some good outboard ,also the track is not super colored, light, not too much just right imo)
anyone know if they use plugins only for mixing and mastering?
PoM
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Posted : Aug 7, 2010 15:44
Quote:
On 2010-08-07 03:31, Speakafreaka wrote:
Which is has been mixed in the box, which is outboard and which is emulation of outboard?
most emulation dont even emulate transformers,op amps and saturation you get by overdriving them , emulating a eq just by his eq curve and his noisefloor is nothing vs the real thing, lot of the fun for elctronic music is abusing gears and get coloration,most emualtion are usless for that , i would rather use plugins for clean sound ,but the saturator are getting better and better in plugs... and it all depends the experience of the sound engeinner offcourse some can do magic with plugs like i said .
here a other track i have no idea about the youtube quality haven t listened to it .
freechameleon
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Posted : Aug 7, 2010 18:17
Quote:
On 2010-08-06 17:59, Maine Coon wrote:
..distilled water is tasteless..
just to complete the story:
if distilled water was pure and 100% clean, there would be no need of aqua bidest and aqua tridest, which has to remain closed in bottles of certain materials; even normal glass and air-contact contaminates aqua dest with time.
pH 5,5 for aqua dest seems too strange to believe. you have to test with a proper(!) pH meter, not the funny indicator stripes. though i can tell you that we work with normal aqua dest and it has pH ~7, otherwise all the calcs wouldn't work out..
most likely you got cheap and old aqua dest, or even just the more common deionised water.
[/OT]sry
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 8, 2010 00:34
Pom, I haven't used any compression ... just the compression that naturally comes from running through a channel.No EQ difference, nothing but running through a channel.
So I ask again.
Which is the analog solution please? Which one you prefer ... really doesn't matter. Which one is analog please?
I'm not going to tell you the gear, because it is irrelevant.
Surely you can tell which is analog if the sound is better? I mean, that is what you've been telling us.
I listened to the videos you posted. Its fucking nasty generic wank, IMO. It has no bass, and I've heard every single one of these sounds at least a billion times before. Weak example in my ears. It also sounds digital loud style. This is hardly reminiscent of late Flying Rhinos analog warmth.
The bottom line here is ... I'm sorry, but I don't think you are qualified to hold opinions of the strength you do. In other words - I think what you perception is based on a weakness in your technique, rather than a weakness on the kit. I think you are justifying your own weaknesses as a producing by blaming the kit's part. And frankly I think thats a bit shit.
On the other hand ... I've spent the last 10 years producing. The last few making VSTs, and several months now developing and analysising this very subject for a synth I'm releasing. I know what I'm about. I have a degree in computer science with a specialism in real time computing and embedded systems. I will gladly tell you there are advantages to dedicated hardware DSP, but will forcibly tell you this has precisely fuck all to do with potential sound quality. My thesis was on a synthesiser I created. It is perfectly possible to develop completely analog sounding solutions in a digital environment. I am an expert and I am telling you this. Not suggesting. Telling. You should understand that I am extremely unlikely to be swayed in my opinion, because it would fly in the face of what I have experienced and understand down to the level of circuty and electrical signals with DSP first hand, and furthermore I strongly doubt you are as provenly qualified to comment on the subject..
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka
PoM
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Posted : Aug 8, 2010 12:13
Speakafreaka i have these kind of discussions all the time with some friends and we never agree ,i think we won t cause we have different taste,we are probably both right and wrong cause of our different experiences.
about the sample you posted i said with coloring analog gears,in your sample from what i remember i would say they are both digital cause there is not much difference and not the analog color i know and like,i ll listen again maybe and see if today i change my mind .
you were talking about flying rhino but to me lot of the oldshcool trance don t have much the warmth i like same as the one from today, it show warmth and analog colors is taste and different for us , as you find the track i posted very digital sounding and to me it sound less digital than many track i hear these days.(but it could be all plugins, it s the first tracks i have found i could find better example i m sure )
i use 100% digital processing these days at my studio and it s ok but yes i m not really happy about that warmth thingy .
from my experience the sound of some gears can t be replaced ... it s like trying to replace a virus with a sh 101, both can sound great but they wont replace each other.
if you have to replace a gear you love and know there is nothing that sound like it you ll not be very happy ...for me some of these gears are analog so you may understand my position better . faking their sound in softaware and beeing satisfied is really not easy ,maybe it s about technic like you said , but as long as no one proved it to me i still belive in what i have learned from my own experience .
if someone nail the sound i love only with plugs i would be just very happy it s possible to get and won t spend thousands on the gears i want and continu to work everyday with plugs like i do to nail it.
it s not about having tools that no one have or things like that.
again this analog vs digital discussion is non sense, a other example would be someone that love a analog filter, he may have a hard time to replace it in digital... it s more about some digital and analog tools can t be replaced insteed of one is better between analog and digital .
PoM
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Posted : Aug 8, 2010 12:57
i relistened the track i posted and yes there are not super colored ,i m not really convinced cause it still have a itb feel to it but less than many tracks i heard recently.
i would really like you listen to the sound i like, i have one track made with a friend that have the color but i m not 100% happy with the mix ,i would like to find a better example i ll post it when i find one.
and you re right about knowledge and experience ,some very good mixer just use plugs these day but trying to get a sound i really like wiht plugs is still a pain vs just using a few analog gears that give it effortless ,good tools are the one that give the sound you want with the less work , in my experience it s a other point for some analog gears i like .
Hex Osirus
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Posted : Aug 8, 2010 21:22
one thing ppl forget to think about when comparing digital and analog is how modulation works....analog your ACTUALLY mixing voltages a continuos signal with infinite resolution together...and digital your in a simulation mixing 1's and zeros together at the resoltion determined by sample rate...so i dont think it is EVER going to sound the same...no matter how good the emulation...now or the future...
http://soundcloud.com/seer
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Aug 9, 2010 00:52
Quote:
On 2010-08-08 21:22, Hex Osirus wrote:
one thing ppl forget to think about when comparing digital and analog is how modulation works....analog your ACTUALLY mixing voltages a continuos signal with infinite resolution together...and digital your in a simulation mixing 1's and zeros together at the resoltion determined by sample rate...so i dont think it is EVER going to sound the same...no matter how good the emulation...now or the future...
you right , but its been proven that your ears have limit too.. and 0's and 1's allready passed your analog ears so as much its true its worthless
PoM
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Posted : Aug 9, 2010 02:05
i think even in digital it make a difference imo i don t have enought experience but it seems true to me that after the a/d convertion it don t sound as good as before but there is still a difference .for example the sound of a mix that went to a analog desk ,the front to back depth and open sound ,some air ,seperation i havent heard in a mix that i know 100% digital (from me and friends )
now if someone is used to mix every day on neve or api desk and tell me i m wrong ,he can get the same sound from a computer it will make me think twice but to be honest it never hapened yet , even a small desk around the 4000/5000 euros range can make a big difference from my experience but like everyhting it s all about taste, it hapened some friends like more itb than otb mix .
Maine Coon
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Posted : Aug 9, 2010 15:04
^
I suspect that with 4-5 K euros worth of software you may achieve some pretty good results too.
Like I said before: of course CDs were shit compared to vinyl, if people compared their high-end record players with boomboxes.
4-5 K euros... You can buy a good violin for that kind of money and forget about computers and mixing desks altogether - that's another possibility. Just thinking aloud...
Bloomen
Bloomen
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Posted : Aug 10, 2010 15:05
