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Virus TI myth?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 16:34
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the microwave 1 is known to be a bass monster and great for raw sounds too ,i have read many times it s a secret weapon for the price you can get one |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 17:15
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What I would say about the video is that Waldorf synth architecture changes relatively little over time - its really very static, but what is going on with the rest of it varies much much more. Their digital filters have moved on considerably since the microwave 2. Give the demo of Largo a go. Not that as it happens I view Waldorf filters as the be all and end of digital filter design. Its the oscilator section that sounds out like a sore thumb as being quality.
On stepping filters in ACE ... well I simply don't agree. The filters can be modulated at audio rate - where you can get stepping on any synth is from something like the modwheel which has only 127 values. However, this is controllable in ACE (unlike many others be filtering the input from the modwheel using the second filter as a slew limiter, or alternative drawing automation instead of using MIDI results in a completely smooth transition.
Here is a little demo I did. The sound generator here is the filter. The cutoff is being modulated from an audio rate osc ... take a look at the waveform. There isn't even a hint of stepping. If the filter had a steppy response, you'd see it here.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/790678035c37761c/
Maybe you just don't 'get' this synth? But your observations on it are consistently (well) wide of the reality of the situation.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 17:59
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I’d like to contribute a story to the whole “warm vs. cold” argument. It will seem off-topic, until you finish reading it and (hopefully) get the analogy.
Every textbook in the world – from 4th grade “natural science” to graduate texts in chemistry – will tell you that distilled water is tasteless. It has to be, in theory. Well, I bet that all those geniuses that repeat this stuff for the last 500 years have never actually tasted distilled water. I have. It does have a taste and it’s disgusting. (It also has a pH of 5.5 and not 7.0, like all the textbooks say – but that’s another story) What happens is that your mouth misses all the impurities it tastes in your local water. So, it gives you a phantom taste – just like you’d see a green dot when you close your eyes after staring at a red dot for awhile. The “cold” or “harsh” sound of digital synths is this nasty taste of distilled water. It’s not really there, but it is for you – because you miss the impurities you’re used to. BTW, many people I asked said the distilled water really is tasteless to them. Just like many people will tell you they hear no difference between analogue and digital.
What PoM mentioned about an analogue synth fitting perfectly where a digital didn’t has a similar analogy too. Go to a lab, get chemical grade 96% alcohol and dilute it with chemical grade distilled water to 40%. Chill it. Taste it. It’s disgusting and has very little in common with good vodka. See, contrary to popular belief, vodka is not just 40% solution of ethanol in water. It’s impurities besides those two components that make it “smooth”. Now, if you never drank vodka in your life, it’s going to be just as disgusting to you as 40% lab alcohol. Just like any filtered saw wave will sound idiotic to somebody who grew up on symphonies and never had any interest in electronic music. But if you had your share of drinking and tried different brands of vodka, you’ll taste the difference and you’ll yell something about “warmth” and “soul” when somebody tells you lab-made stuff is just as good. The impurities made alcohol and water fit together better in the mix.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:13
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On 2010-08-06 17:15, Speakafreaka wrote:
On stepping filters in ACE ... well I simply don't agree. The filters can be modulated at audio rate - where you can get stepping on any synth is from something like the modwheel which has only 127 values. However, this is controllable in ACE (unlike many others be filtering the input from the modwheel using the second filter as a slew limiter, or alternative drawing automation instead of using MIDI results in a completely smooth transition.
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it sound very smooth yes but could you try with overdiving the filter and use more resonance?if i heard step i m not deaf dude , maybe it comes a controler i don t remember , maybe it was not cause of the filter but the distortion i have no idea ...next time i will try automation . and dont get me wrong ace is one of my favorite all time synths but imo it could be even better but that just design taste i guess |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:20
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The resonance is at the max - the only sound you here there is resonance. Distortion doesn't step either - it just doesn't work that way.
One of the whole points of ACE was that all the controls - everything - is modulatable at audio rate. It doesn't step. .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:22
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could you try to overddrive, even if distortion ahve nothing to do with this , i noticed when overdriving the filter in serie. what you are saying to me , is that with automation i should not haev any step? just asking |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:24
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For what end? I'm telling you it doesn't step FFS!
Do you think I don't have better things to do with my time that upload multiple samples of audio to the internet when I already know the result?
I'd far rather write tunes with some kit I know to be excellent  .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:26
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i was modulating it with my mouse that why maybe |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 18:59
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i tried with a automation cause i found it strange i heard stepping and you tell me no and your sample is super smooth, there is something if it s not filter stepping i was thinking it s maybe the oscilaotr waveform ,i don t know , i would be curious to know what it could be |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 20:02
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On 2010-08-06 17:59, Maine Coon wrote:
What PoM mentioned about an analogue synth fitting perfectly where a digital didn’t has a similar analogy too.
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no it was a digital synth ,but about the warmth thing , i don t hear any warm psytrance for example , except few tracks or few artists maybe and guess what most psytrance is made with digital gears.
now some skilled engeinner can do wonder with plugs and sound like their mix went outside of the computer but they are not many in my experience ( my experience listenign a bit of psytrance, i don t know much projects so i could be wrong)just summing a track into a good desk and using the eq you sound different than 80% of what i hear in psytrance , it s maybe not better for everyone, in the end it s all about taste but this track will have some warmth to me .like you said it s a lot about sentimentality too but not only imo there is some depth and separation that is hard to get in digital at least for me and many from what i hear in released tracks.
if you make me listen 10 tracks and only one have been made with few coloring analog gears i think i ll spot it wihtout much trouble and it ll be probaly the warmest one to me . |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Aug 6, 2010 23:31
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Quote:
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On 2010-08-06 17:59, Maine Coon wrote:
What PoM mentioned about an analogue synth fitting perfectly where a digital didn’t has a similar analogy too. Go to a lab, get chemical grade 96% alcohol and dilute it with chemical grade distilled water to 40%. Chill it. Taste it. It’s disgusting and has very little in common with good vodka. See, contrary to popular belief, vodka is not just 40% solution of ethanol in water. It’s impurities besides those two components that make it “smooth”. Now, if you never drank vodka in your life, it’s going to be just as disgusting to you as 40% lab alcohol. Just like any filtered saw wave will sound idiotic to somebody who grew up on symphonies and never had any interest in electronic music. But if you had your share of drinking and tried different brands of vodka, you’ll taste the difference and you’ll yell something about “warmth” and “soul” when somebody tells you lab-made stuff is just as good. The impurities made alcohol and water fit together better in the mix.
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I've actually tried that before... diluting everclear in water and comparing it with good vodka
I think the thing is, though, that it's the 5% in the 95% alcohol that makes the difference. If that 5% is all fusel oils (that "oily" stuff in bad vodka that gives it the nasty taste), then it could very well be worse than a good vodka that's been charcoal filtered or distilled down to 99% and then rediluted or both.
I definitely feel like the everclear-diluted-in-water I made looked more oily than the stolichnaya I compared it with. |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Aug 7, 2010 01:07
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Aug 7, 2010 02:24
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Aug 7, 2010 03:31
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 7, 2010 14:08
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i ll post a sample but it would be more easy you try it by yourself, init patch sawtooth route filter 1 to filter 2 then filter 2 to output , overdrive filter 2 and sweep fitler 1 with around 50 of resonance you will hear some kind of steping on some sweet spots (amount of overdrive and the filters used ) ,now i don t know if it s cause of the filter and doubt it with the sample you posted,i ll ask urs and report , anyway we are far off topic it s just i m wondering if it would sound smooth with a analog filter or it would be steped too.
i haven t listened your sample yet but what comp you used? if you just runed the track in it ,it wont be much colored and won t make much difference i guess . |
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