dharmatronic
IsraTrance Junior Member
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130
Posted : Jul 15, 2011 16:14:51
Well, I’m currently using access virus classic to produce everything (kicks, bass, leads… so on) and there is one thing annoying me: the midi adjustment size/ bar size, commonly used the 16th part for psytrance. In my case and after tweaking knobs as filter env, amp env, filters and mod env I didn’t manage to achieve that rolling feeling… I was really pissed off and frustrated coz at the moment I’m insisting to have everything sounding from the virus… mostly coz I’m trying to learn how its parameters work. Ok, I think I can get better results when decreasing the bar size (something between 32 and 16th) but still not good enough. So far my conclusion to fix kick and bass is:
After choose bass timbre and before doing eq, compression, saturation, I
- adjust cutoff/res
- tweak filter env, mod env and amp env
- check midi bar size
Is there anything missing?
By any chance, do you know how to convert the 127 (CC ??) (most of the virus classic knobs work from 0 to 127) to practical units such as Freq range, ADSR (time, speed)… etc. Or must it be all done by ear?
Bar Mitzwa
Inactive User
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Posted : Jul 15, 2011 16:16
Quote:
On 2011-07-15 16:14:51, dharmatronic wrote:
Well, I’m currently using access virus classic to produce everything (kicks, bass, leads… so on) and there is one thing annoying me: the midi adjustment size/ bar size, commonly used the 16th part for psytrance. In my case and after tweaking knobs as filter env, amp env, filters and mod env I didn’t manage to achieve that rolling feeling… I was really pissed off and frustrated coz at the moment I’m insisting to have everything sounding from the virus… mostly coz I’m trying to learn how its parameters work. Ok, I think I can get better results when decreasing the bar size (something between 32 and 16th) but still not good enough. So far my conclusion to fix kick and bass is:
After choose bass timbre and before doing eq, compression, saturation, I
- adjust cutoff/res
- tweak filter env, mod env and amp env
- check midi bar size
Is there anything missing?
By any chance, do you know how to convert the 127 (CC ??) (most of the virus classic knobs work from 0 to 127) to practical units such as Freq range, ADSR (time, speed)… etc. Or must it be all done by ear?
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
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123
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Posted : Jul 16, 2011 03:00
i did not get what you mean by bar size? whats that? note length? if so, yeah its a factor. your shot is very short, but it sounds a bit like a somewhat high pitched square wave bass. maybe try first to get bass from a classic saw oxilator. although square can give nice bass also if you want. remove all modulation from it. and quadrafuzz (google for quadrafuzz.dll if you dont have it) often helps.
http://soundcloud.com/vipal
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Jul 16, 2011 08:07
well... it seems like vigal said the problem is more with the synth patch itself. this is more a leadish sound than a bass sound. maybe lower octaves/notes? dif osc combination like mentioned, better filter settings etc.
also what are you recording into? its awsome to have great outboard synths but you should have a good way to record them (io with good converters/soundcard/preamps/proper cables when needed and such).
i have had synths for years but only recently made my whole recording chain half decent and it is like working with a whole new set of synths now. The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back
By any chance, do you know how to convert the 127 (CC ??) (most of the virus classic knobs work from 0 to 127) to practical units such as Freq range, ADSR (time, speed)… etc. Or must it be all done by ear?
Well... no
You see, one CC (lets say #7) might control the volume going from 0 to 10. Another CC (lets say #53) might control delay time in 0 to 2000 milliseconds, which is very far from the 0 to 10 scale of the volume. This makes it very hard to come up with a conversion that could fit all CC cases.
What i'm pretty sure you can do, is to turn a CC on the computer and watch the value in the display of the synth. That way you can easily figure out which CC values corresponds to the parameter values you want. Some synths even comes with lists of this data in the back of the manual (showing f.ex. delay time in ms for all 128 CC values)
Hope this helps
Cheers
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : Jul 16, 2011 13:43
Here's a Virus bassline example, playing a riff to show more than one note.
Its the Polar TI but I am not using anything other than the classic Virus saw and LPF.
Took me one minute to dial up from an init patch which means that tuning things by ear and the ease of programming due to the Virus' UI are a good way to get sounds you want fast.
dharmatronic
IsraTrance Junior Member
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130
Posted : Jul 16, 2011 14:47
thanks guys I really appreciate your comments.
@vipal, let's see, you are right midi bar size = note lenght. I also tried to increase note's lenght but it overlaps kick. so left it like that.
this bass patch uses 3 osc (70% square and 30% saw aprox. and sub osc square) not sure about "remove all modulation". I mean I understand what you mean but I cant see how it would help; sound mod could be env mod, amp mod... and so on. If I remove it all, audio will be static, won't be?
@faxinadu, tnx man. I will try to change osc then but I cant do much about record environment by now. My monitors, soundcard and cables are ok, I think... far from pro but decent. If have a chance I will work on that too.
@audiosonic, unfortunately in this old virus version I couldn't find any data information about it.
not sure about that coz computer will probably give cc number as well and since i dont have virus numbers (rate, speed, freq...) I won't help anyway. Virus manual only talks about about max volume and minimum level... i.e.: "...the final pot, RELEASE, determines the speed or rate at which the volume decreases when you release the key: At low values the sound ends relatively abruptly, at high values, the sound fades out... curve is at when you release the key: The lower the level, the shorter the RELEASE phase..."
@vipal, let's see, you are right midi bar size = note lenght. I also tried to increase note's lenght but it overlaps kick. so left it like that.
Well, keep in mind that notes easily can sound even if they're released.. so if anything, you should shorten the notes to keep them from overlapping the kick. This is because of the 'release' phase of the envelopes. When you release a note, the 'release' kicks in. My bet is that you'd get better results if you kept the 'release' of the volume and filter envelopes at a lesser value.. but give it a shot
Quote:
@audiosonic, unfortunately in this old virus version I couldn't find any data information about it.
not sure about that coz computer will probably give cc number as well and since i dont have virus numbers (rate, speed, freq...) I won't help anyway. Virus manual only talks about about max volume and minimum level... i.e.: "...the final pot, RELEASE, determines the speed or rate at which the volume decreases when you release the key: At low values the sound ends relatively abruptly, at high values, the sound fades out... curve is at when you release the key: The lower the level, the shorter the RELEASE phase..."
I think you're misunderstanding me Most likely because of my poor language skills (english is not my native language)
Let's say that you wanted to know about delay times - You find the 'delay time' parameter on the display on the synth, and then you change the CC from either your computer or a midi controller. Now, when the CC is at 64 you can see on the display of the synth that the delay time is 1000ms for example. This way you will know for sure that a CC value of 64 is equivalent to 1000ms delay time
This way you can easily, but slowly, create your own lists of CC-to-realworld'-values
Cheers
dharmatronic
IsraTrance Junior Member
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21
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Posted : Jul 16, 2011 15:54
tnx audiosonic, I will definitely try that since my virus doesnt come UI within... ehehehhehe
I just uploaded a very simple bass (virus init patch) with some filt/amp mod with just one saw osc using 17th (or kind of...) note length and LPF. sounds better IMO... despite the clicks at the bass end notes. tnx @disco hooligans
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : Jul 16, 2011 16:04
Quote:
On 2011-07-16 15:54, dharmatronic wrote:
tnx audiosonic, I will definitely try that since my virus doesnt come UI within... ehehehhehe
It is why I said UI (User Interface as in the Virus' knobs on the desktop/keyboard) and not GUI (Graphic User Interface) that comes with the TI.
Quote:
On 2011-07-16 15:54, dharmatronic wrote:
I just uploaded a very simple bass (virus init patch) with some filt/amp mod with just one saw osc using 17th (or kind of...) note length and LPF. sounds better IMO... despite the clicks at the bass end notes. tnx @disco hooligans
To get rid of the click at the end of the not, slightly raise the release time on the envelope that controls the amp. Just enough so that you don't hear the clicks.
Hehe, i know the feeling My Virus has no real UI either
I like the sound of your last clip. Try turning down the 'decay' (or 'sustain') on filter and amp envelopes to tighten up the bass pluck.. also, to avoid the click try turning down the filter's 'envelope depth' (since it sounds to me more like the click is in the start of the bass sound)
This may not work out for you at all but that is the nice thing about synths: you can try out stuff, but choose to not save in the end!
