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Vinyl is better than AudioCD. Do not debate.
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 13:26
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i would never ever live without at least some minor acoustic tuning in my living room..
some corner traps, a nice carpet and cloth at the ceiling... thats a must.. but then i am extremely lucky to have a wife thats a audiophile too... makes life easier 
i also like the dry sound of a studio, but then for acoustic music i don´t like it at all.. and for ambient as well.. and thats what i like to listen to most of the time in my living room..
so dry psy in the studio and "wet" sound in the living room
@tomos.. what electronics do you use at your living room setup? (amp, cd player) and what phono pre? |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 14:44
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Acoustic styles need a little bit of room, don't they. A long time ago engineers went through a craze of getting recordings as dry as possible, but now it is predominantly agreed that a bit of room sounds much better on a recording and playback too IMO
In my main listening room I've got a Tron Meteor preamp and power supply. I think this one is completely unique, it's a one off modification.
Conrad Johnson MV60 Vacuum-Tube Power Amp
ShanLing CD-T150 with Tube Output
http://www.shanling.com/images/new/CD-T150/CD-T150art.jpg
It's cool because the tubes glows blue like the Antares Tube saturation plugin
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/tomosuk/Image031.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/tomosuk/Image030.jpg
I have another system on the top floor that was intended to be used as serious movie room with great sound. The projector is a good 10 years old and has never had much use.
I'm running a Revel Ultima Gem surround system with Proceed PAV PDSD. But none of it ever gets used because the projector is really old and such a hassle to turn on. I'm thinking about selling the whole lot and just buying a big TV. Its a case of form over function - looks good, sounds good, but by the time its all switched on and running, you've missed you TV show. Waste of money 
Not fun to use.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 15:15
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On 2008-09-30 12:56, Tomos wrote:
But the vibrations are cut closer together to account for the speed the needle along the groove, I don't see how it affects the sound.
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Yes, of course, otherwise the pitch would become lower further in on the record.
It's just physics...when the needle hits a little bump in the groove it takes time for it to travel to the opposite side of the groove. Lower speed means that it's pushed with less force and hence it takes longer time for it to travel between the sides of the groove, but actually it would need to move faster to accurately reproduce high frequencies since the groove contains more cycles per cm.
Also I think that what klippel mentions could be a factor as well.
If the force is not even on both sides of the groove the needle will not move back and forth as easily, hence causing issues with the higher frequencies as well as creating more wear which will decrease the high frequency response every time you play the record.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 15:23
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@tomos
nice setup! looks like you put a lot more emphasis on the sources (deck+cd player) than on the amp itself.. at least moneywise.. not meaning that the amp is not good of course..
i always thought you spend more money on an amp than on the sources, but lately i´ve come to the conclusion that the sources might be even more important (which seems so logical after all, just never thought like this)
i have a bryston 100B-SST DA with b&w nautilus 805 signature (with completely modified frequency crossover, in fact all new) and asw 825 sub..
by the way, do you rob banks in your spare time??
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 15:35
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I was under the impression there was a subsonic tracking groove that the stylus was pulled along in, so forced altered by speed wouldn't change that much.
Honestly, you sound like you know what you're talking about, I'm trying to get it straight in my head. So, don't think I'm arguing I think you're probably correct. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
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Posted : Sep 30, 2008 15:57
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by the way, do you rob banks in your spare time??
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Haha, no
I inherited a lot of this equipment from my dad. He's annoyingly passed the audiophile gene onto me, it must be genetic, I can't help but obsess over sound. Although I've taken more the production route.
Thankfully I consider his current choices after a good 40 years of upgrading his equipment to be really excellent and I don't think I'll be changing anything in the foreseeable future.
It's amazing how different all the high end system sound. You know they're all excellent, but they all have a unique feel to them. You could take the same money and build a completely different sound from different parts and still love it. Its crazy, hunting for the sound you want is infectious and you have to know when to stop!
My dad (still alive by the way, he just doesn't use the equipment any more) Has become probably the grumpiest, most boring old man EVER in RECENT few years. I just hope that isn't genetic!
He no longer listens to any music I think he needs to get back to his vinyl and fall in love again. I suspect it's because he's retired and is secretly very bored and doesn't know what to do with himself.
With regards the amp. I've always found the source and speakers to be my main focus. After all. 99% of all distortion occurs in the speakers, and the source needs to get the best information possible to them. I was convinced by the importance of source when I got my Benchmark DAC1, it made a huge difference across the board.
I think once you get to a certain level with amps, the cost to performance ratio gets stupid and may even enhance some styles of music and not others.
After hearing some 50 high end amps in various setups and A/B tests I found the Conrad vacuum-tube sound all round excellent for all genres and I wouldn't change it. Tubes are cool ! |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 11:20
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didnt wanted to start a thread. i like to stay junior haha
.. so here it goes. anyone produced sounds for vinyl 'in the present time' how you did the mixing and mastering regarding the fact that vinyl spectrum has a limit (freqs above 14 or 15 khz won't get pressed)?
Wondering one thing. Would you cut all frequencies off at 14-15 Khz ? And on the mastering chain , isa highcut for vinyl really needed ?I mean I know that sound spectrum on vinyl don't go that far but would it cause any harm to the sound if you would not cut all higher freqs? Is there a good technique about this issue? ..also any good tips very welcome. Cheers
Only expirienced opinion is golden here. I doubt I get an expirienced opinion since most (all?) from psytrance scene are creating sounds only for digital domain but who knows it's worth a try to know more.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Disciple
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
85
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:03
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Listening to my old Goa records on a quality record player, full of genuine analogue production is a much better experience than a listening to an overcompressed psytrance track with digital synths any day of the week. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:09
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agree.. even back in the goa days the same tracks sounded better on vinyl than on cd release.. but it depends how it was pressed too..cd was always kind of cold ,clean but detailed
btw there is still release on vinyl and still a crowd for it (in psytrance i don't know but in techno there is )if i start making music more serioulsy i will sure look to release on vinyl |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:21
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Quote:
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On 2013-01-07 11:20, TimeTraveller wrote:
didnt wanted to start a thread. i like to stay junior haha
.. so here it goes. anyone produced sounds for vinyl 'in the present time' how you did the mixing and mastering regarding the fact that vinyl spectrum has a limit (freqs above 14 or 15 khz won't get pressed)?
Wondering one thing. Would you cut all frequencies off at 14-15 Khz ? And on the mastering chain , isa highcut for vinyl really needed ?I mean I know that sound spectrum on vinyl don't go that far but would it cause any harm to the sound if you would not cut all higher freqs? Is there a good technique about this issue? ..also any good tips very welcome. Cheers
Only expirienced opinion is golden here. I doubt I get an expirienced opinion since most (all?) from psytrance scene are creating sounds only for digital domain but who knows it's worth a try to know more.
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i dont know much about this, but for mastering on vinyl you can forget loudness war and limiters/cliping and don't compress much, center the low end around 200 hz lp around 15 khz ( not sure these eqs are a must..depend the tunes probably ) |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:25
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of course there are scenes where cd is nothing special, and the labels are more like cd nazis they dont want to release any cd.Atleast that nothing what they would invest for.
Personaly its hard to tell from my perspektive what I really like more all has its advantages and disadavantages. Certainly CD will stay colder as Vinyl, but more detailed. Than a big artwork cover on a vinyl is a real artwork and not a nice flyer in a case.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:26
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:29
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Quote:
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On 2013-01-07 13:21, PoM wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-07 11:20, TimeTraveller wrote:
didnt wanted to start a thread. i like to stay junior haha
.. so here it goes. anyone produced sounds for vinyl 'in the present time' how you did the mixing and mastering regarding the fact that vinyl spectrum has a limit (freqs above 14 or 15 khz won't get pressed)?
Wondering one thing. Would you cut all frequencies off at 14-15 Khz ? And on the mastering chain , isa highcut for vinyl really needed ?I mean I know that sound spectrum on vinyl don't go that far but would it cause any harm to the sound if you would not cut all higher freqs? Is there a good technique about this issue? ..also any good tips very welcome. Cheers
Only expirienced opinion is golden here. I doubt I get an expirienced opinion since most (all?) from psytrance scene are creating sounds only for digital domain but who knows it's worth a try to know more.
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i dont know much about this, but for mastering on vinyl you can forget loudness war and limiters/cliping and don't compress much, center the low end around 200 hz lp around 15 khz ( not sure these eqs are a must )
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I will make it almost blind and strictly from the feel I will compress for sure, but all with small settings and a bit of sidechaining here and there, I will set all tighten mono to 300hz for sure and will be careful with lows. The only thing is about the higher range, not sure how to do it right at the moment.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 13:40
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from what i read on the net you have to be carefull with SSS in vocals it would sound more agressive on vinyl.. -12 rms is hot enough
33 rpm less than 15 mn by side
45 RPM less than 9 minutes by side
as mastering you also need experience with the cutting system beeing used or you will get surprise
i have vinyl with stereo bassline.. so yeah making the low end mono is not needed i was wrong, what you have to be sure is that there is no out of phase signal in the low |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 7, 2013 14:05
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thanks mate good infos, and yeah the deessing should be a must for vocals. altouhg never found a nice deesser they all suck no matter if analog or digital I always had to make compromises or was never really satisfied with deessing, but will focus my mind on it much more this time.
Back in the 90s nobody really cared about it like highcut or deesing in my scene, we just brought our computers and either a tracker or atari was responsible for a beat without any knowledge of how to make a balanced mix etc ^^, but it worked fine and those vinyls are not cheap today.
Wondering now how to do it properly.
I will make an Ep that what I atleast was aksed for. Maybe a maxi with b side instrumentals or remixes, however a track of my style is usually up to 4 minutes and with lots of vocals so deessing will be needed as well. -12 rms seems to me to be the limit but really good limit I think.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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