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Vinyl is better than AudioCD. Do not debate.
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 17:10:32
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A piece of interview with Dmitry Medvedev, russian president. (Sorry for my translation but I think the main point is clear).
"However, he has noticed that he is the music fan and loves vinyl records as they "sound better" than CD. "The vinyl record really sounds better. Qualitatively differs from CD. I didn't think so before, but now I see: vinyl gives a full spectrum of a sound, and the CD nevertheless conceals the nuances", - Medvedev considers."
LOL :=)
  http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 17:21
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vinyl also has a very much warmer sound
saii.rave.ca |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
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3642
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 18:36
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Awesome.
Also, cds are better for trance imo (ESP psytrance) for the sole fact that cds have much better level clarity. Meaning that you can hear each level individually a lot better than vinyl, which blends levels together.
Vinyl also loses high frequency levels as the diameter the needle travels decreases (aka- as the track reaches its end).
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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eole
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
151
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 20:07
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Quote:
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Vinyl also loses high frequency levels as the diameter the needle travels decreases (aka- as the track reaches its end).
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really?
i've never heard about that before.
A noise annoys an oyster but a noisy noise annoys an oyster most. |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 20:24
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Quote:
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On 2008-09-29 20:07, eole wrote:
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Vinyl also loses high frequency levels as the diameter the needle travels decreases (aka- as the track reaches its end).
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really?
i've never heard about that before.
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Yeah, I couldn't tell you where I read about that cause it was quite a while ago, but it's true. It's due to the physical interaction between needle and the bumps on the vinyl.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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AvS
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
464
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 20:35
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Quote:
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On 2008-09-29 20:07, eole wrote:
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Vinyl also loses high frequency levels as the diameter the needle travels decreases (aka- as the track reaches its end).
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really?
i've never heard about that before.
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I never thought of that either but it makes alot of sense when you think of the physics behind it all. It's kinda like the "sample rate" gets reduced the closer the needle gets to the center of the vinyl.
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ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
605
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 21:52
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A boy near here prints LPs (even just one copy, typically used by rap/raggae artist).
Here are some of his advices.
Vinyl loses quality near the center (especially at 33rpm) so the suggestion is to put tracks that got more higher freqs at the beginning of the side.
At 45rpm performances are better.
Due its own characteristics under 150/300 hz the record must be mono.
Frequencies under 40hz and over 14/15K are impossible to record.
+ Volume -> less time for side
+ Bass -> less time for side
+ Bass -> the needle jumps
+ High -> low volume
+ High -> distortion
12" a 33 rpm at high volume max. 12 min.
12" a 45 rpm at high volume max. 10 min.
10" a 33 rpm at high volume max. 8 min.
10" a 45 rpm at high volume max. 6 min.
and a lil bit of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record
...my 2 cents!
http://soundcloud.com/alphadelphi |
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Psytec
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
35
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 22:00
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i heard that they boosted the hi frequencys b4 they press the records to try correcting the loss of frequencys.
This true? |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 23:07
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I don't see how vinyl could lose high frequencies towards the centre.
If it is a real phenomenon, I'll take a wild stab in the dark and guess it would be due to a change in pressure of the cartridge against the sides of the groove. The arm would travel faster as the it takes less time to complete a rotation.
But it just sounds ridiculous - the record moves quickly, but the cartridge moves so slowly. It can't be an audible or even measurable quality.
What I do know is that it wouldn't be anything to do with "sample rate".
All pressings come from metal masters that are cut on a lathe. If same rotational speed is used throughout the lathe spiral cutting procedure, the sample rate would be the same. Sample rate isn't an inaccurate term, even for analogue vinyl, (unless analogue recording equipment was used from recording through to cutting)
The digital information has to go through a DAC at some point into a lathe friendly wave. So despite being an analogue medium, it had a sample rate at some point.
Poorly set up turntables with arms that are too heavy can smooth out the minute grooves corresponding to high frequencies. This is a potential source of the loss and could occur at a higher concentration toward the centre of the disk if rotational force did make any sort of a difference.
I love vinyl, I loved growing up listening to it, touching it and studying the cover art. Now even the era of picking up a CD and putting it a player seems to be dying.
I buy as much psy on vinyl as I can, despite coming from a purely digital source, something definitely happens when its played back from wax.
By the way, I am not a Dj at all, I just like the sound of it. Stereo image on Vinyl is something to behold. Instruments can appear way out of the confines of the invisible box and up front sounds are much closer to you.
One thing about me and music, I consider it an art just listening to it. Its so important to me to hear music at high quality that I rarely listen anywhere except my main listening system, on my monitors or in my car.
My main listening speakers are the Infinity Prelude system and my vinyls are played on this. Looks & sounds great.
http://stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1207yorke.1.jpg
http://stereophile.com/turntables/1207sim/
I don't even go to parties anymore, I really want to look after my ears. If I do go, then quality is not an issue because I'm there for fun and dancing, not to critically pull it apart.
I still try and pull out old records, its more fun going through a cupboard and manually 'queuing' them up than sitting on a sofa with a remote. Convenience of digital has totally removed a lot of the fun and sense of occasion for me.
I still use Mp3s. Vinyl and CDs aren't always appropriate. But I hope you guys hear what I'm trying to say.. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Sep 29, 2008 23:24
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On 2008-09-29 22:00, Psytec wrote:
i heard that they boosted the hi frequencys b4 they press the records to try correcting the loss of frequencys.
This true?
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You are right. You might be thinking of weighting (I think its called that, although equalization would be a better word). It's not because of a loss of frequencies they are boosted, but to avoid noise.
If you think about the groove of the vinyl, the high frequencies are relatively close in width to the bass.
However it takes MUCH more energy to produce low frequencies than high to the same amplitude.
To prevent the vinyl groove looking like a wide wiggly line, taking up width - and therefore playing time. Frequencies are exponentially increased at the phono stage of amplification. Sound is amplified more as the frequency gets lower.
In addition to this, high frequencies are very susceptible to large amounts of noise from dirt, dust and the noise from the tip of the stylus against the groove. So high frequencies are boosted on the pressing and reduced at the phono stage so they picked up more relative to noise. |
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kalgos
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
29
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 03:44
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"In 1925, electric recording extended the recorded frequency range from acoustic recording (168–2000 Hz) by 2½ octaves to 100–5000 Hz."
nothing like real old school quality
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 10:25
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i think vinyl "looses" its quality towards the end of the record because of the changing angle of the stylus to the groove with the tonearm moving inwards... on the outside grooves of a record the arm is along the line of the grooves and travelling inwards it gets "out of focus"
sorry for the bad explanation..
thats why you want to aim for long arms (12" instead of 9").. because the angle does not change as much as for short arms...
of course not all is good with long arms because you have higher weight of the arm and thus more sidefriction in the grooves..
@tomos. you bloody bastard, owning a simon yorke.. how dare you i want that one so badly.. sick shite..
could only afford this one:
http://www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=190105286531
which i have to say is quite nice as well...
and i have to agree, there is something to records that a cd won´t have.. not even on a wadia cd deck for 10k€ although thats digital at its best and comes veeery close...
but a record played on a good setup will make you think you can literally touch the soundwaves when youre eyes are closed... cd is always through a curtain.. the curtain might get thinner with better dacs and decks and so on.. but it remains.. so my choice is vinyl all the way!
although i own and buy lots of cds and do like the characteristics of cds as well.. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 11:02
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 11:09
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oops.. forget what i said about the angle.. its true in general but not for what we talk about here..
of course its because of the speed.. but i am not sure if it loses high freqs.. it would lose total volume i guess.. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Sep 30, 2008 12:56
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Spindrift wrote:
The needle travels slower towards the centre of the record, hence it cannot keep up with as quick vibrations.
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But the vibrations are cut closer together to account for the speed the needle along the groove, I don't see how it affects the sound.
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klippel wrote:
the changing angle of the stylus to the groove with the tonearm... "out of focus"
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I see what you mean, as the spiral becomes tighter, there will be more of a 'bend' the the arc?
Maybe there is something to it.. but, I've never noticed. I've fallen asleep with a record playing and waking up to the awful the crackle-loop at the end of a record assures me there are definitely high frequencies there! lol
The Simon York is very nice. I'm done upgrading now. I'm happy with the sound of everywher at home. Although I've fallen in love with the dry, dead sound of the studio and I'd like it everywhere. I don't think my girlfriend would ever agree to any rockwool in the living room!! |
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