Author
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Views on piracy. Honesty please
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
342
Posted : Mar 17, 2010 19:34
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On 2010-03-17 03:09, *eLliSDee* wrote:
it reminds me of a South Park episode where cartman start a christian gospel band..
and People are made to feel sorry for Lars Ulrich because he would not be able to afford his 40 carat gold bar (actual drinking BAR) because there music is being downloaded for free on the net. and it is a BIG DEAL
dhrama lab ,u'r a south park fan, r you not?
know which episode i'm talking about?
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No I don't really watch south park.
  Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Mar 18, 2010 02:47
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djsabreblade
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
83
Posted : Mar 24, 2010 22:45
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i want to go back the 90's.can anyone help me? like i mean seriously, im about ready to drop all the new school software format altogether and make music old school style.
rapidshare after rapidshare, and then i get it and and boom! delete after one listen! [most but not all new music]newer is not better. please for the love of God tell me something...youtube dropped support for firefox 2.0.0.20 [the best]....so i fucked them. thats easy. if you don't want that annoying popup sayying please update your browser, you do something. type about:config in the address bar, then go to ''general.useragent.extra.firefox'' and change the value to ''Firefox/3.6'' lol worxxx! ^_^ now you can use firefox 2 again.
the whole thing is anger is what fuels piracy anger over stupid changes that make hi-end users angry. we change stuff for the better. making the world a better place.
we need to take a step back and realize the past was actually better. the 90's that is. seriously!
-peace out! |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 01:08
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Man, the 90s must have been so awesome. From what I hear on this forum, everything produced in those days was amazing and bad music didn't exist...and nowadays nothing good is produced and everything new is disposable and horrible.
give me a fucking break with this garbage you're spouting - there was atrocious music in the 90s, there is atrocious music now (and the same with good music). It will always be that way.
The only difference between now and then is that it is easier and cheaper to make music, so more people have a shot at it, meaning more music overall...
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love a lot of the old school releases from mid to late 90s, but there is so much good *new* music out there! You just have to look and not be such a cynical bitch about it.
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 02:36
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On 2010-03-25 01:08, willsanquil wrote:
Man, the 90s must have been so awesome. From what I hear on this forum, everything produced in those days was amazing and bad music didn't exist...and nowadays nothing good is produced and everything new is disposable and horrible.
give me a fucking break with this garbage you're spouting - there was atrocious music in the 90s, there is atrocious music now (and the same with good music). It will always be that way.
The only difference between now and then is that it is easier and cheaper to make music, so more people have a shot at it, meaning more music overall...
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love a lot of the old school releases from mid to late 90s, but there is so much good *new* music out there! You just have to look and not be such a cynical bitch about it.
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+1
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djsabreblade
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
83
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 04:34
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cool. i miss the 'kiddie rave' days personally. from about 92-95. quite a short period actually. |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 05:02
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On 2010-03-25 04:34, djsabreblade wrote:
cool. i miss the 'kiddie rave' days personally. from about 92-95. quite a short period actually.
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BLA BLA BLA
 
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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djsabreblade
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
83
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 06:25
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so nobody gave a shit about my firefox 2 youtube workaround? lol ^_^ |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 16:50
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...Going back to the piracy issue (and away from the dreadful 90s topic)...
I think that laws can not serve as a beacon here, since laws are always written to the advantage of a lobbying group. Since large industry associations are better organized than consumers or petit bourgeois producers, laws will always be skewed in favor of the former. Well, politics are banned on this forum (luckily!), so I move on.
Morals can be thought of as a “natural law”. And this is where it gets interesting. There are plenty of moral maxims that are not moral at all – they are actually laws, masquerading as ethical principles by invoking some divine authority. And people regurgitating this stuff usually don’t give much thought to what they are saying. No sex before marriage – end of story!
Really moral attitude and behavior come from your own heart – not from the Constitution or the Bible. There is a moral compass in every one of us – we just need to pay attention to it (and not shake it too much). The easiest way to get into this habit is to think about intentions of your actions.
Intentions.
Do you install that cracked copy of Sonar or Ableton to learn about EM production? Maybe to compare the programs in hope to identify the best buy? Or do you want to crank out endless kbbb repetitions with ping-pong delayed clicks and squelches in hopes to catapult yourself to stardom - and not pay a dime?
Do you download pirated albums to familiarize yourself with a new style, artist, label? Or do you plan to play this music in your next party set? Do you intend to buy the album(s) you liked? Why not? What’s wrong with supporting the music you love by voting with your $? If you are a DJ – why not give the original artist his/her due?
And I already hear all these reasons: “it’s just a copy”, “they get free publicity from me”, “they are big and mean and charge $25 K per concert” etc. These are all nothing but rationalizations – attempts to bend that compass needle when we don’t like where it is pointing. Forget all this lawyer crap! Save it for the court room. Look inside, stop shaking your compass – where is it pointing?
Are you really wowed by that new CPC album? Did you hear that tiny voice in your head suggesting that you buy 2 copies (one for yourself and one for your friend’s birthday)? Then just do it. I know I will. Did you like Ableton’s features? Read the reviews, see how much they progressed from one version to another. Look at all the bug fixes they did in their fractional upgrades. Would this be possible if they just went out of business after version 1, because every smart ass Tiesto wannabe decided to get fresh and not pay? If you appreciate all the work these guys have done – why not give something back to them?
I believe in “try before you buy”. You like something – you trade it for something of yours. There is no free lunch, no matter what Lenin might have told you. No amount of rationalization can change that. You do not steal hotdogs from Uncle Joe on a street corner because “it’s your right to not starve”. You do not break into a pharmacy and get a load of antibiotics because “everybody has a right to health care”. You do not squat in your neighbor’s guest house because “he is a rich pig and does not really suffer from you living on his property”. And you do not steal a copy of Sonar because you “should be able to create music”.
And not because the law says so, or the Bible or your mom. Because it’s easy to distinguish the intention to explore from the intention to steal. And everybody who is not completely screwed up in their head should be able to figure out this difference for themselves.
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ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
605
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 22:26
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 23:48
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On 2010-03-25 16:50, Maine Coon wrote:
...Going back to the piracy issue (and away from the dreadful 90s topic)...
I think that laws can not serve as a beacon here, since laws are always written to the advantage of a lobbying group. Since large industry associations are better organized than consumers or petit bourgeois producers, laws will always be skewed in favor of the former. Well, politics are banned on this forum (luckily!), so I move on.
Morals can be thought of as a “natural law”. And this is where it gets interesting. There are plenty of moral maxims that are not moral at all – they are actually laws, masquerading as ethical principles by invoking some divine authority. And people regurgitating this stuff usually don’t give much thought to what they are saying. No sex before marriage – end of story!
Really moral attitude and behavior come from your own heart – not from the Constitution or the Bible. There is a moral compass in every one of us – we just need to pay attention to it (and not shake it too much). The easiest way to get into this habit is to think about intentions of your actions.
Intentions.
Do you install that cracked copy of Sonar or Ableton to learn about EM production? Maybe to compare the programs in hope to identify the best buy? Or do you want to crank out endless kbbb repetitions with ping-pong delayed clicks and squelches in hopes to catapult yourself to stardom - and not pay a dime?
Do you download pirated albums to familiarize yourself with a new style, artist, label? Or do you plan to play this music in your next party set? Do you intend to buy the album(s) you liked? Why not? What’s wrong with supporting the music you love by voting with your $? If you are a DJ – why not give the original artist his/her due?
And I already hear all these reasons: “it’s just a copy”, “they get free publicity from me”, “they are big and mean and charge $25 K per concert” etc. These are all nothing but rationalizations – attempts to bend that compass needle when we don’t like where it is pointing. Forget all this lawyer crap! Save it for the court room. Look inside, stop shaking your compass – where is it pointing?
Are you really wowed by that new CPC album? Did you hear that tiny voice in your head suggesting that you buy 2 copies (one for yourself and one for your friend’s birthday)? Then just do it. I know I will. Did you like Ableton’s features? Read the reviews, see how much they progressed from one version to another. Look at all the bug fixes they did in their fractional upgrades. Would this be possible if they just went out of business after version 1, because every smart ass Tiesto wannabe decided to get fresh and not pay? If you appreciate all the work these guys have done – why not give something back to them?
I believe in “try before you buy”. You like something – you trade it for something of yours. There is no free lunch, no matter what Lenin might have told you. No amount of rationalization can change that. You do not steal hotdogs from Uncle Joe on a street corner because “it’s your right to not starve”. You do not break into a pharmacy and get a load of antibiotics because “everybody has a right to health care”. You do not squat in your neighbor’s guest house because “he is a rich pig and does not really suffer from you living on his property”. And you do not steal a copy of Sonar because you “should be able to create music”.
And not because the law says so, or the Bible or your mom. Because it’s easy to distinguish the intention to explore from the intention to steal. And everybody who is not completely screwed up in their head should be able to figure out this difference for themselves.
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Have never made a penny off music. When I do I will purchase the softwares that I use most. However, there are some softwares that I will never purchase.
My moral compass operates differently than most. Sure they work hard to get the software where it is. Look at FL though. It started as a small project a very small team of programmers. The point I'm making is for a veteran programmer it is not extremely difficult to make these updates and bug fixes etc. I'd bet that steinberg doesn't spend massive amounts of time on their next version of cubase. Look at reaper as well. I don't care for it but its obviously not done by a big corporation. When you buy products often your buying their name as opposed to their product. Such as pro tools as I mentioned in a previous post. Many studios run pro tools rigs just because thats what all the hip hop junkies wanna see. Because, "pro tools is the best" probably because it says pro in the title so it must be pro. It's the same as always big time corporations wiping their ass with our money. The little guys (FL etc) offer fair pricing. I'd put FL up against any software out today except for live performance which btw they now have a live mode which I imagine will get much better in releases to come. You can now trigger patterns with a controller just like in ableton. It's just not nearly as good....yet. Lifetime updates sells me on FL. I'm not sure what other companies offer this but FL does and their initial pricetag isn't outrageous considering what you get. It comes bundled with many more vst than most, not to mention the vst are VERY USEFUL. Such as the directwave vst. Kontakt killer anybody? Supports all formats. Assignable keys for different instruments. The list goes on.
Steinberg, Cakewalk (sonar), Sony Acid, Logic, Ableton all have very inflated price tags in this ever growing population of producers.
Example: Many painters went hungry to buy paints. Artists find ways to get what they need to make art. It just so happens it's digital now. If these companies set price levels for upcoming producers who don't make any money or a "hobbyist" price point that's reasonable. I guarantee they'd see increased profits as opposed to the opposite. All the big names would still buy the full complete producer make money versions, and the small fry would buy the same software under different licensing terms.
One main key point that I point out is. It is EASIER to pirate than it is to purchase. That is one huge hurdle these companies are going to have to overcome. In today's world everybody wants everything as easy as possible.
And the point is these companies will never go belly up because all the big studios are still going to buy their legal copies so they have no copyright issues.
  http://www.youtube.com/user/trawhi (tutorials)
http://www.myspace.com/eusidmusic |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Mar 26, 2010 00:12
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My point is: most people can figure out what is right and what is wrong by themselves, if they listen carefully to their heart. It is simple but it is also very difficult, thanks to the massive brainwash we receive since we are born. Most people are trapped in one of 2 modes of thinking/feeling about piracy:
First one relies on an outside authority:
“God (my Mom, the Supreme Court) said it’s wrong to download pirated stuff – so I will not do it. And those who do this kind of immoral (naughty, illegal) stuff should go to hell (their room, prison)”.
The other one relies on “independent reason”:
“If I can find a rationalization that sounds plausible enough (like “it’s OK to steal from Microsoft – they are too rich anyway”), I will just do it”.
I say that neither approach is right. Both are traps. What is right depends on your intentions. If your intention is to choose something you would like to buy – piracy is fine. If you are just getting for free something you should pay for – it’s theft, does not matter how good your rationalizations sound.
Just my $0.02 ...
P.S. I don’t mean that you have to buy everything you like. Getting stuff for free is great – as long as the rightful owner gives it to you. Long live Ektoplazm!
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Mar 26, 2010 00:52
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The little guys (FL etc) offer fair pricing.
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Steinberg, Cakewalk (sonar), Sony Acid, Logic, Ableton all have very inflated price tags in this ever growing population of producers.
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So, the right thing to do (just IMHO) would be to boycott the sharks and support the little fish. I still don't see how inflated prices justify stealing. I understand how they create an incentive for people to steal. I just don't see how they make it morally right. If you think something is overpriced - just don't buy it. Walk away and get something else.
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One main key point that I point out is. It is EASIER to pirate than it is to purchase. That is one huge hurdle these companies are going to have to overcome. In today's world everybody wants everything as easy as possible.
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This is true, but there are more and more exceptions – thanks to the whole Open Source / Creative Commons movement. Nowadays it is actually easier to get a FREE, stable, fun to use Linux distribution than to fiddle with a cracked copy of Window$. Likewise, it’s easier (and far more pleasant esthetically) to get your music from Ektoplazm than from some faceless RapidShare link.
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Mar 26, 2010 08:06
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Mar 26, 2010 12:13
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First of all, when people talk about how piracy is killing music, games, software or movie industries the first thing to do is to look at how they are doing.
You can't sentence someone for murder if the supposed victim is alive and well.
There is a massive amount of very high quality software available. Maybe in theory it could be even more and higher quality, but it's hardly a market that is dying.
Even if one would be looking at a market in trouble, to make out piracy to be the culprit one would need to find a correlation between piracy and less sales.
Several surveys noted the opposite trend, the more people pirate the more they purchase as well.
Piracy expands the potential market. Back in the days when all the software one used was a midi sequencer it was quite rare you met someone producing music. A half-decent studio would be in the region of €10000 which meant few people had access to one.
Now almost everyone is making music. Of course the technological advantage of computers have made it more accessible, but piracy has played a big part.
If everyone who wanted to get started making music had to fork out €100's on a DAW and some plugins they might not have gotten in to it in the first place.
Sure, before you could get a fairly competent workstation keyboard for €1000 and make tracks on that, but it would be hard to express your ideas and get a good sound.
Today you can get software like e-jay and musicmaker for next to nothing.
But people want to be able to express themselves and get a good sound even if they are beginners, hence very few actually bother with programs like e-jay.
Instead they usually want to go straight for some of the major DAW's or semi-consumer software like FL or Reason, and already a €250 price tag can be a big deterrent for many people when thinking about trying something out.
If we made a poll here I would guess the percentage of users that started out with legit software is very small. I remember such a poll on the official Ableton forums and there most users admitted starting off with a crack, and that's despite Abletons unlimited one month trial.
When you found the software you actually like to use you should of course consider to support the developers. But the important thing is not what you use, but how much support you give. You are not hurting anyone if you download a plug and use it even if you currently cannot find the means to pay for it, but you are of course helping when you can pay for something. Someone who bought their DAW and never use pirated software is less valuable for the industry than someone who bought their DAW and one plugin but use 50 pirated plugins.
And if you cannot afford both a legit copy of windows as well as a donation to the small struggling developer making that plug you cannot live without, I would say the morally correct thing to do is to use a pirated version of windows.
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« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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