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using sidechaining for other things then kick+bass
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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5388
Posted : Jul 13, 2005 06:51
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how about it? i've heard about doing that for pads so they sit nicer in your mix... would we go about it the same way as colin's famous guide?
has anyone done this btw?
  "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Jul 13, 2005 07:55
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i sidechain the kick bass and drums all together sometimes.. then leads comin out more clear and the groove instruments can "cover" eachother when all play together.sound not too compressed but tight as hell (ho yes.. i use compressor > gate > eq over this group.also the plugins should tried out with diffrent order of machines,or vst, take in mind cubase wont let u change the order after trying 1 setup>so save presets > which will change after placing them in other order.. or just go do it in wavlab.)
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illusions
Erebus
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40
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626
Posted : Jul 13, 2005 16:12
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was wondering about this myself
anyone else do this ? for pads or even fx/leads ?
good topic surrender! |
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talolard
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 13, 2005 18:59
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i've just been experimenting with compressing high hats with snares. it gives subtle effect, but i liked it.
im working on a track with a friend playing power chords and thought of compressing his riff with the compressed bassline, ill let u know
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jul 13, 2005 19:30
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rob-ot
M-Field
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123
Posted : Jul 14, 2005 01:18
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On 2005-07-13 19:30, Colin OOOD wrote:
You can put a compressor over eg. a pad sound, or a fat, reverby drum loop and feed the sidechain with the kick (or something else doing the same rhythm). This way the kick will 'punch holes' in the pad or loop. Use a long enough release to hear the compressor working, and use a large ratio and fairly low threshold so the compression is very obvious.
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Compressing pads sidechained to the kick:
This is used alot in proggy styles, especially prog house. Its ALL OVER the new Antix album, and occurs in many Son Kite and Atmos tracks.
I'm working on a track right now with a friend that's similar to a track on the new Antix album where the 'bassline' is just a low deep pad that pulsates due to sidechaining to kick.
How you set the attack and relase as well of course then will reshape the amplitude envelope to your taste with high ration setting.
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Kitnam
Mantik
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110
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1151
Posted : Jul 14, 2005 04:17
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anyone made experiences with sidechaining groups to each other? might be interesting.
about gate, i did nice results in gating a pad with the hihats.
@colin
i am not a fan of long release (dangerous in my eyes) but this sounds very interesting. thx!
about compression itself, i made very potential experiences with overflowing, amazing!
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jul 14, 2005 04:37
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 15, 2005 07:45
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i get great resaults sidechaining kick and snare so that snare cuts out the kick drum arround 250 Hz when played together. also i like to sidechain pads and synths with hats or other "light weight" sounds that usualy get covered in the mix.
attack and release time on sidechain can in fact produce very complex efects. some reverb with long release after sidechain is making you feel the presence of the instrument even when it's cut out or ducked for few dB.
on the other hand, connecting multiple sidechains can get tricky if they depend from eachother. in that case i don't use chanel volume at all. i leave all volumes on 0 Db and handle them with output & input gain, ratio, attack and release.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
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603
Posted : Jul 15, 2005 15:28
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-14 04:37, Colin OOOD wrote:
In this case, long = long enough to hear the gain return to normal before the next kick hits... probably about 100-150 ms at the most.
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Er, am I doing something wrong with my math?
For most tracks that are around 140bpm, they have 2.33beats per second, which is .429 seconds per beat, or ~430ms from kick to kick.
Wouldn't that leave somewhere around 400 ms between each kick?
Granted the ears may need 200-300ms after the kick before the compressor starts to release for definition, but I was just wondering if looking at it 'by the numbers' was way off.
-Alex |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
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549
Posted : Jul 16, 2005 14:03
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your math is not wrong, but these settings depend also on thershold point. release time starts exactly when (in this case) kick gain falls under the treshold limit. so longer your kick is - shorter release time is needed and vice versa.
there is one more technique for compressing kick drum that also works fine in some cases. it goes like this:
- set the kick ch. at volume arround - 10 dB
- set the compress. attack time to about 350 - 450 ms (or more) and release to minimum (usualy 50 ms or less)
- set the ratio to maximum (16:1 or even higher)
i know  this settings look wrong. but now use the treshold settings with really agressive values (start with - 15 dB and keep lowering untill you hear kick drum getting shorter and stronger). Use input and output gain to adjust the volume of the kick. Note that with such agressive treshold settings changes made with input gain can dramaticly change the sound and lenght of your kick drum.
i've pick up this technique from a techno producer who works for living in comercial studio for more than 15 years. it's an old fashion technique claiming that you can never have 2 much compression on the kick drum
and by all means, eq kick AFTER the compression. Such agressive compression would ruin any eq-ing before compressor.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 16, 2005 18:38
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actually i only sidechain the open and high hi hat's and the snare. i don't like to sidechain the kick+bass because then the percursion sounds strange but yes... the kick+bass will sound nicer but the hats won't fit so i prefer NO side chaining 
next track i'll try to have kick+bass+percursion all side-chained leaving only the synth work (pads, leads, sweeps, etc) out.
but my advise... kick is stronger if it is in it's own channel... if you compress it with something (by side-chaining or compressing the whole mix) the kick will get weaker. |
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AlphaQuadrant
IsraTrance Junior Member
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24
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106
Posted : Jul 16, 2005 23:20
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anyone using logic and can give me tip how to do sidechaining.
i´m no noob btw. but due to time issues i worked out mixing sectrets quite slow the last months....
i guess you know how low and high cuts should be set , or ? |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Jul 22, 2005 10:41
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-16 18:38, e-motion wrote:
...but my advise... kick is stronger if it is in it's own channel... if you compress it with something (by side-chaining or compressing the whole mix) the kick will get weaker.
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this makes no sence. sidechained kick plays on individual channel. by sidechaining bass with it you don't mix it with the bass sound. you only reduce the bass when kick is played. kick it self remains unchanged. so i don't know WTF r u talking about?
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
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Posted : Jul 22, 2005 15:50
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-16 23:20, AlphaQuadrant wrote:
anyone using logic and can give me tip how to do sidechaining.
i´m no noob btw. but due to time issues i worked out mixing sectrets quite slow the last months....
i guess you know how low and high cuts should be set , or ?
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I think u can find here threads about how to sidechain in logic. And if you don't(which i doubt), I suggest to open a new thread about your question... Let's keep it organized.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
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