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Using film excerpts in tracks, copyright?
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Zohan
Started Topics :
9
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36
Posted : Sep 10, 2013 20:35:26
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I know this is a topic that comes up a bit regarding copyright but is it possible to have a track released if you use some film excerpt in it?
I hear alot of tracks these days with speech in them and some tracks that I know are from films, do these producers get the tracks cleared even if the vocal is not distinguishable ?
I uploaded a new track i just finished to soundcloud today and it contains a film vocal (but is heavily processed and not at all clear).. and I got a message off soundcloud saying that the track was taken down due to copyright infringement. I doubt they could have made out the vocals used as they were only a minor part of the track?
Anyone any experience or info with this would be great to hear, cheers 
  planet arium |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
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33
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 00:21
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hm i dont know about copyright and stuff like that, but many of my tracks have film vocals in it...and sometimes not processed at all and never got any message from soundcloud.
so dont know why they messaged you...
would be nice to hear if someone knows more about that...
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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Zohan
Started Topics :
9
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36
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 00:51
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Yeah i am thinking it could be just coincidence that they messaged me today, as I have never received any of these messages from them before.
And the message came through instantly, so unless they have some software to analyze tracks that tell them if there is copyright material in it think it should be ok!..
Have you released any tracks with these film sounds in them?
planet arium |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
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33
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 01:24
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 01:26
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mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
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1785
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 07:33
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As far as releasing tracks like that, Id guess it depends on who's releasing it. I've heard movie samples in tons of commercially released stuff, and I'm not sure I believe that permission was granted for every single case (but idk, maybe it was?). Give it a try, worst case they tell you to remove the sample(s).
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 08:56
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Well worst case is you are being sued by a big movie company. But I seriously doubt that will ever happen. Big acts in the psytrance scene use parts of movies and I have never heard of them being sued.
So I think it comes down to this: it is not allowed but our scene is so small that it will never reach the ears of the lawyers of Walt Disney or a similar company or they don't seem to care about it.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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OzMike
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
148
Posts :
1681
Posted : Sep 11, 2013 13:47
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Don't be surprised about being sued. It happened to a mate of mine who makes house music & remixed a well know Aussie rock song. He was served a notice whilst actually mixing the track in a club. He had to pay to pay a heavy fine & do 200 hours of community service.
Cuntus Maximus. |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 00:56
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
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1505
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 07:22
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The laws depend on the country where the track was released I think. Ozzie laws are quite strict about sampling while others might be looser.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 17:16
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This copy rights thing is taking the fun away from things! I mean, one of the great advantages of this whole sampling stuff is that people can pick on something and put it on a different context, process it, make it fit something the original authors would not even dream possible, and hence the dialogue goes on and on. This multi-layered quote thing has been the modus-operandi of some styles like Hip Hop, for example, that made good use of samples and accapelas from the back of disks and all of that - of course they owned them, but I don't think you can extend your sampling rights simply by owning the material these days...
Never heard of anyone receiving such messages on "soundcloud", and yep, many many people have samples from movies on their tracks. If they inspected psytrance as a whole, we'd be down to 15% of the tracks in display currently! And that includes the classics as well!
I'd ask them what happened if you're sure it's beyond recognition and processed to pieces! maybe you're starting to get big and this is good news!  |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Sep 16, 2013 17:54
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It works like this - If you are seen to make money or have money while being seen to break a law, then you will be taken for everything you made, all the damages you caused to the image of the originals' owners, and any other money or possessions that are yours that the prosecution can argue is theirs. Sometimes if the laws are good, you will also get loads of debt. Depending on the disposition of the claimant.
Why is this the case? because you are poor and can't fund the lawyers to fight back for you until the other side runs out of money. Basically its resources against resources in a legal arena.
Yes you just wanted to make something cool, but no one cares, because the moment you break a law, then you are owned by legitimate claimants who want a free ride.
But really... Why not just make your own stuff? Whats the point of copying others crap? |
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Ricciardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
188
Posted : Sep 16, 2013 18:21
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It depends on the context that is used, and your only in trouble if the copyright owner present charge...
besides that, as any other style of sampling, there is also the artistic side of it... it really depends if the owner will fill riped off...
about movie excerpts there is no problem, as long its a shot cut and re-processed, people worry too much about it, they only might notice you used it, if the track becomes an extrem sucess, and if it does, they either can feel happy for you to use or, sue yes, they might sue you, if they feel its bad for their reputation or they feel riped off...
prodigy used to sample parts of great hits, they made extreme sucess with it, and never had problems, but its also true that for most people, they dont even recognize the bits of record they "distorted" in order to make their music...
i strongly recomend the use granular synthesis, when sampling, you can craft incredible sounds that catch the ear, and turn your music unique, its a synthesis method that still is not soo much used for being complex, and having less plugins for it, but its very, very deep in terms of what it can be done!
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Sep 16, 2013 19:12
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Sorry for the OT:
Ricciardo: any recommendations for granular synthesis? Which plugins do you use?
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Melange5738
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
142
Posted : Sep 16, 2013 22:39
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Your only chance of getting away with samples without paying anything and not risking future liabilities are to NEVER upload it to the Internet and ONLY use it live from YOUR computers. If that is the case they CANNOT charge you squat (falls under the artistic freedom section).
If you are using images, you can theoretically get away with it if you change the image somehow, but that is not the case with audio samples. For each speech sample you use you will need AT LEAST TWO copyright permissions, one from the artist talking and one from the copyright owner (such as Warner Bros, Fox or whatever). You need BOTH, if you pay Bruce Willis 1000 bucks and Fox says no, you are screwed. If they say no there are nothing you can do really, and they usually say no.
You need the permissions BEFORE you upload it to the web or release it, not AFTER. If their lawyers contact you first you are screwed from a negotiating standpoint, they can charge whatever amount they want.
If you insist on taking a sample from a movie which you do not have permission on sampling and you are uploading it to the Internet or releasing it, I would keep it short (less than 10 seconds), put it in the early part of the track, only play it once, and preferably with some effects and music added on the same part of the track. That way it might go under the radar of the nasty lawyers.
Last, READ THE LAW BEFORE you do something you might regret later, it might cost you far more than the latest studio gear. |
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