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Using already mastered material
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
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321
Posted : Jul 20, 2010 02:32:22
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Hi, this feels like a stupid question but I'm not quite sure so thought I'd ask...
If I were to bootleg some sound which was already mastered, what effect on the sound could that have down the line? I know kicks are be fine, since they can be compressed indefinitely, but what about say a bass note, or some other sound? I mean if I were to put it in a track and then in turn master that track.. ie double whammy for that particular sound.
I suspect it'll sound stiff and lifeless due to dynamics being too squashed but I'm not sure. Anyone?
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makus
Overdream
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3087
Posted : Jul 20, 2010 13:07
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 20, 2010 13:35
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agree with makus ,but keep in mind mastersed stuff like kicks are distorted cause of the limiting or cliping to get the track loud, futur processing and a other mastering on top can/will rise the distortion( sometimes it can make the track sound more digital i guess cause some of the "harmonics" produced by cliping or limiting are random and not only "multiple" of the fondamental like with some pleasant analog distortion),.personally i would not use that or already mastered stuff in my tracks , 2 chain of mastering in the face it s sure not as clean as one but whatever sound good in the end... |
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makus
Overdream
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Posted : Jul 20, 2010 13:56
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hey pom, are you sure all masterd material is distorted? it is not true actually. did you try listening to music not on youtube already?  kidding
what im saying is that the limiting isn't a bad thing because regular mastering limiting doesn't provide any distortion. moreover, often i find mastered/limited tracks much more pronounced, punchy and even clean. the dynamics can disspear, but who cares today...
and how do you know which samples, especially kicks, in your favourite sample library aren't bought/stolen/taken from mastered released tracks? personally i often hear pieces of other sounds layered on kicks/snares/hats in libraries. so i am not sure about them at all.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 20, 2010 14:16
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yes agree with you makus, in the end if it sound good it s just what matter,but every processing that make things louder introduce distortion it s a compromise between loudness and punch using agressive settings,it can t be as clean as the unmastered source .(it doens t mean we hear it,it s low in volume,but with futur processing it could rise and make the sound more "digital". it s subliminal with digital distortion hehe, it s there in the background making things just sounding a little worst and fucking the clarity of the track ) |
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makus
Overdream
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3087
Posted : Jul 20, 2010 14:48
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 20, 2010 16:22
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take a kick, run it through 2 mastering chains and you will hear it, if not, do it again and again until there is just crackling/distortion haha
i also think it can cause unwanted effects, because mastering take it to the maximum. this process 2 times can be to much but dont have to be.
but the main problem will be the mp3 you use, this will cause much more qualityloss than the mastering, make sure you just steal wave samples haha
but you are right, as long as it sounds good... 
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
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321
Posted : Jul 20, 2010 23:54
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Thanks for the replies guys!
Cosmosis even states in one of his tutorials that most efficient way to get a good kick is to just chop one out of a mastered track because you can usually compress them to death without introducing any distortion or audible difference. Besides, as makus says I reckon most of the kick libraries that go around contain a lot of that... and why not, its just a kick after all.
Sure, WAV files are to be preferred, but even a 320 kbps mp3 you can't possible hear a quality loss (if you're human  )
Cheers |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 21, 2010 01:59
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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116
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1219
Posted : Jul 21, 2010 10:19
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Quote:
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On 2010-07-20 13:35, PoM wrote:it can make the track sound more digital i guess cause some of the "harmonics" produced by cliping or limiting are random and not only "multiple" of the fondamental like with some pleasant analog distortion
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Clipping a periodic signal can only produce another signal with the same period (since the clipping does the same thing to each period of the signal), so this isn't true: clipping a wave always results in harmonics and never in non-harmonic frequencies. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 21, 2010 15:13
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Quote:
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On 2010-07-21 10:19, Shiranui wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-07-20 13:35, PoM wrote:it can make the track sound more digital i guess cause some of the "harmonics" produced by cliping or limiting are random and not only "multiple" of the fondamental like with some pleasant analog distortion
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Clipping a periodic signal can only produce another signal with the same period (since the clipping does the same thing to each period of the signal), so this isn't true: clipping a wave always results in harmonics and never in non-harmonic frequencies.
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thanks for correction but are you sure about that? digital hardcliping produce aliasing ? and aliasing is not multiple of the fondamental of the sound ,correct me if i m wrong |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 21, 2010 15:33
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Jul 21, 2010 16:56
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Quote:
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On 2010-07-21 15:13, PoM wrote:
thanks for correction but are you sure about that? digital hardcliping produce aliasing ? and aliasing is not multiple of the fondamental of the sound ,correct me if i m wrong
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Aliasing is a different type of “clipping”: it’s clipping the spectrum width rather than the signal strength. Regular clipping happens when our signal’s amplitude goes higher than what our digital format can express. Aliasing happens when the signal has frequencies we can’t express (that is anything higher than 1/2 of the sampling rate). In image editing, clipping will look like patches of white highlights. Aliasing will look like moiré patterns. Aliasing produces fake frequencies that are usually not related to the fundamental. I am not 100% sure but I think clipping will produce harmonics that are multiples of the fundamental.
There are workarounds for both problems. Floating-point formats prevent clipping. And low-pass filters prevent aliasing. So, you can convert your original audio to 96 kHz (floating point), play with it, apply a low-pass at ~20 kHz (to make sure there is nothing above 22.05 kHz there), then convert it back to 44.1 kHz (integer). No clipping. No aliasing. Just some bitcrushing (inaudible?).
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 21, 2010 17:25
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cliping produce aliasing ,i think everyhting that generate harmonics in digital will produce aliasing , oversampling using a filter and downampling will reduce it some plugs do that but my point was the more you process the more it get audible and you loose some clarity in the track so using mastered stuff i see it as a bad idea but if it sound good why not( mastered stuff make me think to these vengeance sound bank where you have to browse hundreds of samples to find one clean and usable cause they have been so much processed and mastered when riped from tracks) .
i understood not much time ago what i like about analog it s there is no aliasing, when cpu will get very powerfull we ll have a big jump in digital production quality and maybe no one will use analog gears anymore, it s the futur imo
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Jul 21, 2010 17:28
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On 2010-07-21 15:33, daark wrote:
in the end it will be worse than a good quality kick
specialy if u have highs and all the rest is the same
i think it is a theft a bad quality one
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huh? |
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