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Underground=Another Word For Bad Music?
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 18:59
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On 2004-12-13 18:46, Side-A wrote:
i personnaly like chewbacca better ^^
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Yeah...your'e right, Chewie represent the raw power from the underground 
Darth was a bit ponzy as well when he was young I remember now.
And star wars is a good analogy of the discussion....some like Luke, some like Darth and some even look up to Chewie with his scruffy appearance.
Same as with trance music 
  (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
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filter
Moderator
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703
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:09
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i dont know about you
but arent you a little bit tired of having "psychedelic trance grandparents" that the only thing they do is criticize what the new people do and talk about times that dont exist and will never come back?
its so sad to watch people grow and become adults and see them talk so many bullshit
Psychedelic Trance from Argentina
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
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168
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2984
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:22
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Hmm, a contraversial subject no doubt. Just what is the term "underground" applied to? It seems that the consensus is that "dark psy" stuff, though underground surely relates to many marginalized psytrance subgenres (and lets not forget old school Goa which still lurks)... but after some thought I realize that this "underground" = "bad" notion is just flawed, since there is bad music all over the place. Some of the refined, well-produced work from major artists that gets released is bad for an entirely different set of reasons, but it's still bad at times. Dark psy (still a stupid name if you ask me) has a large fan base and if it so happens that there are more n00bs into it well what's that matter anyway? People change... it could be a fine introduction... I still cannot fathom what's good about 90% of it (Penta, Xenomorph, and the Ambivalent crew all make wicked stuff but the rest - unlistenable for me) but this doesn't matter so much... people like all sorts of music for different reasons... if part of that is an image of the underground, well who's to say that is any better or worse than any other personal reason for taste?
While there is always good music around, the main trends that grip the scene at any one time seldom features a large amount of quality releases - so in that sense it could logically be assumed that many good sounds can be found in the underground... conclusion: there is good and bad at all levels of interpretation so the comparison is really meaningless unless you get specific and speak of a particular artist, label, or subgenre.
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snowflake
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
194
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:23
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my dear FILTER...
did you bother to read through this thread at all?
what "psychedelic trance grandparents" are you talking about?
and anyway, i feels like a discussion between deaf ppl...
Detox's personal opinion of what is bad quality nusic has nothin to do with the concept he's talking about (this is why there's no need to start naming artists...).
an idea which i think is true....
after all being underground in an underground scene.... that's way below 6 feet under.... innit?
Out Here We're Stoned.... |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:25
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"Thats why many times that we all hear old Juno Reactor,Transwave,Hallucinogen and Astral Projection tunes we say to our friends 'Hey listen what these guys did with that shitty equipment back then' "
i cant believe you put out music and thats what you think. Those guys were useing WAYYYY better gear than what people releaseing stuff in their bedrooms useing a computer and VST are now. The reason the production isnt what it is today is because NO ONE CARED. They were more interested in concentrating on the MUSIC and not getting the "perfect quality frequencies". Imagine that, musicians concentrating on music and not on being audio engineers. The whole logic of this thread is flawed. The reason for an "underground" sound and dark psy is that ALOT Of people are bored with the slick, over produced, same sounding stuff. It has nothing to do with not being able to make commercial sounding stuff, it has to do with boredom, creativity and the need to be different. Of course there will be alot of crap when people are experimenting with something new, this mentality should be promoted to the extreme though, not slagged as a cop out. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:36
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On 2004-12-12 01:19, DETOX wrote:
He said to me that in our days underground is another word for bad and low quality music and suddenly i found myself 100% with his words.
Does anynone share the same thoughts like me out there or is it just me that is fed up with this situation?
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Hi Detox,
I think, as usual, there are several factors at play here. Some artists are unsigned because they do not promote themselves or don't know anybody with a label. Some are too far out and the labels are shy of taking risks. These artists might have created some absolute gems that the majority of people havn't and/or won't ever get to hear. This is a shame.
Having said that, there are also artists that are simply too bad to get released. I have heard some real crap music out there and have heard some very arrogant comments by some untalented "artists".
There are also labels that make me wonder if the label managers are deaf or something. But that could just be my personal taste rather than any real lack of quality from that label and the artists they release.
We shouldn't lump all unreleased music in one pile because there might be some gems in the pile that are shiny enough to light up the whole dung heap. 
I really like "Tamlin - Upside Out". It is a truel psychedelic work and Tamlin has certainly put effort into this track. Still it is unreleased.
So Detox, although you are right about alot of unreleased stuff, you can't generalise to all of it because there are some little surprises out there for people to find.
UnderTow
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
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117
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3086
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 20:43
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I'm a little confused here,the good old Detox say's underground music,not dark music,and I know he use the example of some "amateur productions" that there are mostly in the dark side of trance.
I have to agree,it's not that hard to release a nightrance track this days...FACT.
In terms of poor sound quality,high frequencies and stuff well,you can see loads of brand new names releasing stuff in this "underground" labels.
Besides you can find crappy chill-out and fullon (in terms of production I insist we're not talking about creativity Candy ),we shouldn't make another thread to bash the "nightrance" ,If you ask me they made a good work bashing themselves,because there is good production in this music as well,and serious artists.
Let them release their noises and all in all...what's the big deal???I know it sounds horrible but....HEY TEACHERS LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!!!...basically.
We can enjoy our superiority in our space,in our fluffy parties with colorfull music playing PSYBALL all around,and they can made their parties in the underground that they love jumping around like maniacs untill the sunrise when they have to go to sleep untill the next blood hunting.
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
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6106
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 21:25
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Oooohh.. I liked this part.
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...basically, HEY TEACHERS LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!!!.
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Dopamin
Dopamin
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
268
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 21:45
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On 2004-12-12 01:19, DETOX wrote:
Was speaking with an artist friend of mine today and we were talking about this new trend of most of the artists (mostly new artists that cant release anything anywhere) naming their music underground trance.
He said to me that in our days underground is another word for bad and low quality music and suddenly i found myself 100% with his words.
I mean i see so many artists in our days producing really bad music that i cant even call trance and they label it as underground dark trance and are so proud of it because they feel like a special mystic part of the psy trance scene and even have an attitude towards all the other psy trance styles,especially full on.
Does anynone share the same thoughts like me out there or is it just me that is fed up with this situation?
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Well Detox, this is a subtle flaming thread... but i like it alot cause many ppl get to air their oppinion...good one(and yes i mean it) My take on this subject is that everybody got their own taste and this is what pushes the scene forward. As for the for the ppl that produce these kinds of style that is reffered to in this thread, they must be doing something right cause they got fans and followers, and i my eyes thats more then enough to show there is a need for this style of music. Noise for you harmonics for someone else...;D
Some of the ppl on this thread says that the "underground"/"Dark-Psy" artist have a bad attitude against the full-on production, well what is happening here then. Isnt this the same thing.
So dont throw rocks if you sit in a glass house!
But any way, i like this thread and we need more of them aslong as they dont turn into agressions on individuals!
Cheers!
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mono mono
Onnomon
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5
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314
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 21:57
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WARNING!!!! OPINION FOLLOWS...
Underground, hah! What are all these festivals in Europe with 10000 to 20000 people? Another way to quantify it, how many psy-trance producers make a living from making psy-trance music? I'll bet you that even moderately-known (semi-)mainstreamers have long quite their day jobs- . Of course there's the other "underground electronica", the one that includes artists like Autechre, Matmos, Pole, and the likes. Perhaps not so dance-oriented but they have decent followings.
Actually, psytrance has become somewhat inbred, like a mutant banjo-playing hillybilly boy. There are definitely alot of competent (technically) producers out there inspired by the previous generation of psy-trance producers. Naturally, imitation is the first step in composition.
I dunno, when 3D Vision Download came out, I thought it was the greatest thing since beer cup holders in german automobiles. Since then, it seems that 3D Vision has continued in that vein. Acid Dance has the same sound, and other labels too. But, guess what, check out the top tens, guess which labels trounce: 3D vision, spun, acid dance. I call this the "flash" trance, very flashy and gathers newcomers into their tenticles with promises of sparkling jewels and golden treasures. I still enjoy flash trance occasionally but change is slow.
I think the newer labels like Ambivalent, Nano, Zenon offer the newer twists in the style.
I still believe the scene is growing, especially in the US. Once we create a smile-friendly psytrance-influenced crossover track with lower-than-145-BPM-because-its-usually-too-fast-for-the-laidback-cocktail-toting-young-upstart-consumer it'll get a small boost in fan base.
I think the obvious ripe territory is in the pseudo-hippy-jam-band-festival-circuit. Lot's of acid there, lot's of pent-up energy after 2am with no release. Where's that confounded psy-trance tent?
yasoo!
-dz
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
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1383
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 22:01
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On 2004-12-13 21:57, mono mono wrote:
Once we create a smile-friendly psytrance-influenced crossover track with lower-than-145-BPM-because-its-usually-too-fast-for-the-laidback-cocktail-toting-young-upstart-consumer it'll get a small boost in fan base.
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What about the proggy sound, my friend?
Or the uncharacterizable sienis-like sound, very crossover if you ask me, and nifty fifty was in the very low 130's if i'm not mistaken.
Except that that is not the style that is popular at all. Yes, Ultrapop probably sold not too badly, but how many ultrapops do we get a year, let me rephrase that, a decade?
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
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314
Posted : Dec 14, 2004 01:10
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aye, it's a bit slow at work so i'm typing all this drivel.
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On 2004-12-13 22:01, furthur wrote:
What about the proggy sound, my friend?
Or the uncharacterizable sienis-like sound, very crossover if you ask me, and nifty fifty was in the very low 130's if i'm not mistaken.
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Need that hook thing. Most proggy i've heard seems to lack the catchy little melodic hook, mostly even-steven development without the peaks and valleys of musical development. Psytrance tends to have more in the way of melodic lines and larger dynamics in the development. Be a lot easier to put some vocals in, keeping it simple, but open meanings, basically mantras. Apart from the groove thing, I think we tend to be drawn to this music by its sonic depth. I was at rave recently in Philadelphia and we had our own world-famous Josh Wink spinning this tech-house stuff. Basically simple drum machine stuff with simple one-line melodies. I figured there were about 5 layers, somewhat repetitive. Although I enjoyed just dancing in the company of others, I didn't find this music to be wholly satifying. Yet there's some mass market appeal here.
Perhaps the Beverly Hills Cop 7 will feature some german psy-prog trance ditty.
Hey! there's plenty of opportunity for new things in this genre!
-dz
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Pointy
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Dec 14, 2004 14:32
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On 2004-12-13 19:09, filter wrote:
i dont know about you
but arent you a little bit tired of having "psychedelic trance grandparents" that the only thing they do is criticize what the new people do and talk about times that dont exist and will never come back?
its so sad to watch people grow and become adults and see them talk so many bullshit
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Personally I am much more tired of "grandchildren" that haven't grown up yet and are talking a lot of bullshit.
I don't know, if it is because of your lacking ability with the english language, or because a general lack in your mental abilities, but if you'd care to read GranddaddyDJ's post properly again, you could find out, that it wasn't about critizising what "new people" do at all.
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On 2004-12-13 14:56, GanddaddyDJ wrote:
What ever your definition may be, "underground" will always be a "movement" of most genre's of music. |
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btw Welcome to the forum Ganddaddy "*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..·´¨` .¸¸.·´¨`» |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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48
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858
Posted : Dec 14, 2004 14:46
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On 2004-12-12 04:21, BrettFromTibet wrote:
DETOX: i agree here!
and yes, I notice a lot of bad attitude towards folks who enjoy well-produced psychedelic Full-on from these 'underground' people (who like and produce noisy dark stuff and are NEVER booked outside their country)
(relatively) hardcore lysergic music that is slick and destroys trance floors around the world is always snubbed as "fluff" and "pop"... and somehow to be derided... like it's in the same boat as Brittney Spears or Hilary Duff.
i understand and respect that people have different tastes in sound... but i don't care for the attitude and divison of the scene that seems to come with it...
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I also think same and i have had really bad attitude from Dark Trance artists calling me names and stuff like that. But what to do but respect every opinion and keep on going with what you think is right! These people can do there part also and we can both live happily ever after! It's all until you notice how much hearth and soul is in some music and then you won't care about anything else but that feeling of being somewere else somewere which you reach through your experience in Trance!
Bom
Ganja
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
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MARGHERITA
Master Margherita
Started Topics :
156
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1442
Posted : Dec 14, 2004 15:13
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I make underground music, a lot of ambient & i compose dancefloor tracks 144bpm.
Is realy dificult to book myself for dancefloor, my music is a little different from the masses & not to much hard...so booking is a hard stuff.
I'm in underground moovement , i feel stay @ the underground of the underground.
I not understand, psy trance is underground? yes ?
so why? when i make a realy good new underground music to "goa crews" the crew like more, Popy shits?
I dont speak for nothing, i'm pro bass player from 1993, & every time is the same, money is the master..... of disaster.
all the best & sorry for bad english
http://mastermargherita.com |
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