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Tuning/EQing every single bass note separately...?
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
109
Posts :
70
Posted : Oct 9, 2013 22:51:40
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I have difficulties in making some of my basslines sound good and I have a theory of the reason.
- If you make 145bpm music like I do and have 1/16th long bass notes, max length for a bass note is 103ms.
- lets say that pretty basic bass note is 50hz, this means that one wave cycle takes 20ms.
- lets assume that lowest fundamental you have to deal with is 35hz, which correspond to 29ms cycle time.
- lets say that filter/opening takes 50% of time, then you have max 51.5ms left for the tale of the bass note, you cannot have enough bass cycles for your ear to create accurate pitch perception. Especially if you make the note shorter.
- you notice that if your bassline is "out of pitch" you get it back to pitch by reducing BPM of your song, which I think that proves my theory.
Big question is what you can do about it..?
I thought about trying to divide my bassline for as many tracks as there are notes and tune each note separately, do you think this is a good or bad idea..?
 
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreaml4nd
http://www.mixcloud.com/aegonox-peter-pan |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 9, 2013 23:11
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
109
Posts :
70
Posted : Oct 9, 2013 23:41
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 9, 2013 23:55
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I can only speak for my self and I've written tunes with involved bass riffs...it sounds fine in the studio, car and big PAs, privided I got the bass patch, right, at the source.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 03:35
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 04:30
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at 145bpm this isn't a problem ime. just tweak your patch a bit and it fits nicely again.
where this really matters is most probably darkpsy with like 180bpm and those extra-low bass notes. most of the time i hear only one big mush. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 09:20
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not worth it imo..except maybe on bass that use many notes spread 1 octave higher or more..if you want it a bit more solid there you can make like 2 different eq one for low octave and one for high one |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 09:38
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Quote:
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On 2013-10-10 04:30, Padmapani wrote:
at 145bpm this isn't a problem ime. just tweak your patch a bit and it fits nicely again.
where this really matters is most probably darkpsy with like 180bpm and those extra-low bass notes. most of the time i hear only one big mush.
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Then the envelopes need to be tweaked better! It is possible, and my upcoming Ektoplazm freebie release has 1 track 180bpm on it, and it is proof that it's possible, wasn't even that difficult...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 10:20
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Quote:
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On 2013-10-09 22:51:40, golem wrote:
I have difficulties in making some of my basslines sound good and I have a theory of the reason.
- If you make 145bpm music like I do and have 1/16th long bass notes, max length for a bass note is 103ms.
- lets say that pretty basic bass note is 50hz, this means that one wave cycle takes 20ms.
- lets assume that lowest fundamental you have to deal with is 35hz, which correspond to 29ms cycle time.
- lets say that filter/opening takes 50% of time, then you have max 51.5ms left for the tale of the bass note, you cannot have enough bass cycles for your ear to create accurate pitch perception. Especially if you make the note shorter.
- you notice that if your bassline is "out of pitch" you get it back to pitch by reducing BPM of your song, which I think that proves my theory.
Big question is what you can do about it..?
I thought about trying to divide my bassline for as many tracks as there are notes and tune each note separately, do you think this is a good or bad idea..?
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I have another theory : check your room.
http://www.storm-mastering.com |
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Hypereal
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
86
Posted : Oct 10, 2013 14:30
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Oct 11, 2013 15:12
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Agree. Or get some decent head set at least to check those lower frequencies.
"lets assume that lowest fundamental you have to deal with is 35hz"
this is to low for a fundamental tone... you can hardly perceive it as such, it's mostly felt rather then heard. this kind of frequency is indeed needed, but only for presence.
do this: pick a sine wave on a synthesizer and browse through those frequencies, loud enough for you to feel it. you know, when it goes up your woofer is out, when it goes down, your woofer gets back to, what you're doing - in a way - is creating this buzz underneath the tone so that there's the sub presence there that you can feel, specially when playing through a big system. no such thing as a proper tone on 35Hz. you can crank up the harmonics with distortion, and you can always count on the filter slap you get with the modulation, but it's mostly a big mudy mess. |
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B-recluse
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
377
Posted : Oct 14, 2013 13:08
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and shorten you bass midi notes a bit !!!! , filter and envelope |
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nailik
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
6
Posted : Oct 17, 2013 01:43
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its very simple,
your therory is right about it taking too much time and the tail carrying over is what creates distinguishable differences.
whoever says get the patch right is wrong.
this will help but it is impossible for it to not have a tail after the note releases and the sound decays out.
SIMPLE FIX
build ur bass patch and then put notes of different lengths and velocitys (that u will need) approx. 1 bar of space between each one
next export this into audio and import to session then slice in perfect 1/16th (removing the tail that carries over) and fade out the audio after theyre cut.
this will removing the tail giving u more headroom and also will removing overlapping causing the change in timbre
sound deisgn/live sound student. cubase 7, novation ultrnova, on production oriented pc
soundcloud.com/dj-nailik
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nailik/278320578887262 |
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nailik
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
6
Posted : Oct 17, 2013 01:46
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 17, 2013 03:04
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Quote:
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On 2013-10-17 01:43, nailik wrote:
its very simple,
your therory is right about it taking too much time and the tail carrying over is what creates distinguishable differences.
whoever says get the patch right is wrong.
this will help but it is impossible for it to not have a tail after the note releases and the sound decays out.
SIMPLE FIX
build ur bass patch and then put notes of different lengths and velocitys (that u will need) approx. 1 bar of space between each one
next export this into audio and import to session then slice in perfect 1/16th (removing the tail that carries over) and fade out the audio after theyre cut.
this will removing the tail giving u more headroom and also will removing overlapping causing the change in timbre
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So I assume you've never made a track with the kick coinciding with the bsssline?
People tune their kicks for this reason.
You get the bass patch right at source, then you can shorten the MIDI notes that trigger the bass synth to taste.
Preferable you create your own kicks and tune them to the root frequency/scale of the track, or find a sample that fits. It is very essential and it means getting the source right again.
Sometimes a very tight bass works, sometimes longer notes suit the vibe just fine.
This blind dogmatic way of doing everything exactly the same way leads to the same thing, over and over again.
If you can't engineer a track to sound good because you have a bit of basstail over lapping with the kick, you've got an awful lot to learn.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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