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Posted : Dec 11, 2011 01:38
Maybe bass sounds what you tyred just don't fit with other instruments, I had a lot trouble finding/tweaking proper bass sounds in the past, until I got z3ta+.
Also its possible, that actually out of tune are some other instruments like synths.
xoC
Cubic Spline
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Posted : Dec 11, 2011 23:06
Quote:
On 2011-12-08 21:47, PoM wrote:
yeah but too change the tune of a bass?the problem is not about acutics there, really doube it,with a peak on a harmonic it could happen though.
maybe try a other synths , if you do 2 bassline in G on 2 differents synths and a/b , yu will probably hear they are not pitched the same..still in G though but a little different maybe cause of different harmonics balance,how you eq it influence the pitch too.
retrigering the osc phase can change the pitch,depending where in the waveform you triger the note .
the filter might influence the pitch too.
also some synth might have a drift setting or a slight pitch modulation to mimic some analog synth ...dunno it s just guess
but if you can t repitch it right , it could be something else
it's not "changing" the tune of the bass, it's affecting the perception of the bass pitch.
Bad acoustics not only create huge peaks and dips in frequency response, it can also create huge phase shifts at some frequencys, which affect the sound quite dramaticaly.
Take, for exemple, an allpass filter (there is one on ddmf IIEQ Pro) and sweep it on your bassline between 20 to 150Hz. On some spot, you will hear the bass a little bit higher or lower in pitch, even if the pitch is still the same ...
As you said, you can also hear it on synths which have the init phase tweakable. On different init phase, you can hear slight changes in pitch. In this case, however, the init phase also change the transient sound and so we can be fooled also by it.
Another "funny" test with pitch, just listen to a 440A sine wave vs saw or square. It seems the pitch is slightly different ! so harmonic balance is also affecting pitch ...http://www.storm-mastering.com
Freymuth
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Posted : Dec 13, 2011 17:56
Hello guys, saw this topic on bass.
Im training to get them in a perfect shape too (kick and bass)
On this one I used the Operator on Ableton for both.
The Kick is just a simple sine wave and some pitch adjustmens.
The bass has 2 saw and sine waves, cutoff on about 400hz and the resonance on 0,82.
Then I droped a saturator on both of them. Sounds more or less ok for me like this.
The bass is still a bit too muddy, what do you think about it?
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 13, 2011 18:11
Quote:
On 2011-12-11 23:06, xoC wrote:
Another "funny" test with pitch, just listen to a 440A sine wave vs saw or square. It seems the pitch is slightly different ! so harmonic balance is also affecting pitch ...
yeah harmonic balance is affecting pitch too, these slighty detuned pitch perception are too subtle to get annoying in music, execpt for somone with perfect pitch hearing maybe, otherwise it need a reference to compare too to be noticed as it can be very subtle ,music is full of it .
monitors ,rooms all affect the pitch but to me it s too subbtle to really be a problem, no monitors will make a bass sound out of tune in the context of a track for example, everyhting willsound slighty detuned but wihtout any proper reference it s not noticeable
PoM
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Posted : Dec 13, 2011 18:43
when i switch to different pair of monitors these have a slighty different tonal balance cause of their different frequency response, position in the room.. everyhting related to frequency affect perception of pitch, but imo as long as the brain don't get a reference to compare it too,it's not really noticeable ,or not really a problem as its too subtle to get annoying
PoM
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Posted : Dec 13, 2011 19:07
Quote:
On 2011-12-11 23:06, xoC wrote:
Take, for exemple, an allpass filter (there is one on ddmf IIEQ Pro) and sweep it on your bassline between 20 to 150Hz. On some spot, you will hear the bass a little bit higher or lower in pitch, even if the pitch is still the same ...
intresting man , what is the reason for this? it change the frequency response? i think all pass filter invert the phase but i wonder why it affect the pitch perception
xoC
Cubic Spline
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Posted : Dec 15, 2011 22:56
Quote:
On 2011-12-13 19:07, PoM wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-11 23:06, xoC wrote:
Take, for exemple, an allpass filter (there is one on ddmf IIEQ Pro) and sweep it on your bassline between 20 to 150Hz. On some spot, you will hear the bass a little bit higher or lower in pitch, even if the pitch is still the same ...
intresting man , what is the reason for this? it change the frequency response? i think all pass filter invert the phase but i wonder why it affect the pitch perception
Allpass filters doesn't change the frequency response, and doesn't invert the phase like the invert phase button on the mixing desk.
this is the frequency and phase response of an allpass filter.
It's just a question of timing between frequencys. If some harmonics are late, it affects the way we percieve the timbre, the pitch.
A nice one is to invert the phase on a bassline : on one setting, it's deeper, on another it's loosing impact in subfrequencys. why ? because at those frequencys, if the air is compressed or depressed is relevant to the ear/brain in the beginning of a note.
Invert the phase of a kick ? not much changement, the ear is not very sensitive at this frequencys.
http://www.storm-mastering.com
Intertia
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 24, 2011 13:00
Yeah this was been driving me crazy this whole week. I also tried making my notes longer, sounds a lot better.
Youd be surprised how little things like this ruin the feeling if your mix.
PoM
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Posted : Dec 24, 2011 13:43
yeah bassline note lenght is not really a little thing more a major one imo ! but it can be a lot influenced by the room acoustic ( and probably how fast the monitors decay to silence in the low frequency wihtout even taking into consideration room acoustic )
this could mean there is no perfect lenght/release time as everyone could hear it slighty different depending of their room and monitoring but more a larger sweet spot to be sure of good translation
i think some monitors/headphones are way better than other for this, some even if the size is not right it wont jump at you to correct it, while on some monitors that sound fast, timing can be really more accurate end detailed imo . it s a must to tweak well bassline imo.. as it will show you the sweep spot way easier for setting the envelops
PoM
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Posted : Dec 24, 2011 14:18
that where the bm6a are good imo and probably why ppl like them in psytrance, my adam are slower in the low making it not as easy to tweak bassline parameters that are related to timing. same in my ath and beyer headphone, the beyer is slow ath is fast, on the fast one you make good kick bass with way less trouble, as it just tell you where it sound right with envelops and note lenght, while the other sound lazy making spot where it sound almost right way bigger.. but it never sound totally right,you can tweak for loong time.. while the bass made on the accurate speaker in no time will sound better on both ..there it s not about frequency reponse i think, but timing, transients and how fast the speaker release
Alekzis
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Posted : Dec 24, 2011 16:03
if your main bass note sounds good to you then try to use different eq settings for every single bass note.
https://soundcloud.com/poisonritual
