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Trying to figure out how this lead is made
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 15:30
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Hello all,
I've been learning to write music on my PC for the past couple of years now, but one thing that continues to elude me is how to get that damned lead that is so common in psytrance. I believe most of these leads are done on an Access Virus, but I have heard many people say that Z3ta can sound comparable - but without an example Virus patch I'm at a loss for how to go about recreating this sound. I have posted a snippet of one of my more favorite examples here http://filebox.vt.edu/users/amarano/Psysex%20-%20Alien%20Cop%20(Goblin%20Remix)%20clip%20.mp3 .
I am not trying to mimick this sound in my own music, but I would really like to know HOW it is being done (if for no other reason than to take it to the next level). I am using a number of softsynths: Albino2, Z3ta, Reaktor, Korg Legacy being some.
What I'm looking for is an understanding of a how this particular sound is synthesized. Once I understand how the particular combination of LFOs and OSCs and filters produce this sound, I can go from there in other directions. But for all my hours of tweaking/twiddling I have yet to get anything even resembling a lead like this. What really gets me about this sound is that it sounds like the synth is talking, to a degree. I suspect a fomant filter is being used somewhere along the way, but all of my experimentation with formant filters has been lackluster. I'm hoping that there is a particular way to use a formant filter (perhaps in combination with pulse-width modulation, for example) that I have yet to stumble upon. I realize that in the given example there is a lot of different effects being applied to the synth line to give it that spacious feel (reverb, delay, etc) - but still, the source sound just blows my mind!
At this point I haven't even been able to come close, and am starting to get rather frustrated. Any tips/pointers/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for sharing the synth love!
-Alex |
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MarcoPolo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 15:55
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hmmm sounds like synced noise with resonance and bandpass filter! |
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MarcoPolo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 15:57
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try this out on Discovery synth it has the required features and Vanguard i think will make that too it has a sync noise waveform. |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 16:22
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thank you!
I have tried working with syncing before, but never with much luck. Does it matter what kind of waveforms I use?
A bandpass would explain why it reminds me of a formant filter (being similar). I will play around again with syncing and see what comes up.
Thanks for your tips! |
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MarcoPolo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 16:34
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yes you must sync noise it gives those static formants required for these types of sounds. Also play around with the noise harmonic content to get best results, dual bandpass filtering could improve it even further! |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 12, 2004 16:50
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noise! aha, NOISE! I never tried that - thank you!! |
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Eduardo
Tactical Strike
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
53
Posted : Aug 13, 2004 03:15
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Hey bro...
i really wouldnt know how to explain how to do this sound cause i did it on a track looooooong time ago and dont remember what i did (not the exact sound, but close to what u need)
If u are a logic user then u are lucky cause i used ES M.
**sorry cubase users : ( **
hehehehe, just kidding.
Anyway, i used ES M as synth and used a parametric equalizer, logic clip distorion, logic phaser, logic stereo spread, and logic exiter.
Not that these inserts have modified the basic synth, but im just saying out for curiosity.
Anyway if u feel that u need further help PM me.
I could even give u the preset if u wanted, no problem. (i just want to remind that is basically what u are looking for, not totally identical to what u have on psysex track).
cheers |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Aug 13, 2004 11:46
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i think this sound can be easily made in zeta !
i have this clip now and ill try to make it ....
if i come up with anything close to this ... will pm u mate !
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Aug 13, 2004 11:46
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 13, 2004 16:00
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Wow, thank you all for the responses - even more than I had hoped for. 
Marcopolo - I have played around a little with Discovery (not on monitors, so hard to get a good idea of what it's giving me), tonight though I will be locking myself in the studio and putting your recommendations to practice on Vanguard. Knowing that noise is involved is starting to help me 'see' the sound in my head, rather than blindly twisting knobs and hoping for something interesting.
Eduardo - I am using Cubase, so I don't imagine the ES M would help.  However a screenshot of the settings would be just as helpful as if I had the synth - it would show me the logic behind the sound (which is really what I'm trying to understand). Either way, I appreciate the offer and thank you.
GTN - thanks! Z3ta is a synth I keep hearing good things about, but I really need to sit down and learn how to use it better. If you get anything you like I would love to hear how/what you did. I will play around with it some and see what I can come up with.
Anakoluth - I wasn't even worrying about the effects, but that's awesome of you to point out the espacial effect - thanks! I will check that out tonight some too.
*sniff* I love Isratrance!
-Alex
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 14:45
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After much experimentation with all my softsynths, Z3ta and Vanguard win for coming the closest to this sound. As a side tangent, I have learned how VALUABLE using the mod wheel is when writing leads - it gives that extra level of expression.
In Z3ta I basically took a Vintage Saw 1 osc, and routed it to sync Osc 2. Then I turn the volume of Osc 1 to 0. Then I used one of the 'Noisy' waveforms for Osc 2. A little tweaking on the filter, some compression, and voila - lead madness!
Sonic demonstrations here:
http://www.deltaperspective.com/music/Fuzzikitten%20-%20Omni%20Science%20(sketch).mp3
Thanks for the help everyone!
-Alex |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 18:44
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fuzz mate , im really new to this modulation wheel effect for leads , as u just mentioned above ...
i do have a evolution controller and so i think once i know what exactly to do with the modulation wheel , my leads will also b much better
so i really request and it would b really nice if u could tell me how to exactly use this modulation wheel , if possible with some kinda short example ..
looking forward to it .. hehe
plur ... boom ! |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 20:26
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it's so easy, yet sounds so good. All you do is assign the mod wheel to open and close the filter, letting you add inflection to the notes.
Take your mod wheel and assign it to the filter. A lot of soft synths do this automatically, but in z3ta, go to the matrix and set...
Source: On
Range: about halfway (you'll have to tweak this in a bit)
Curve: U-Lin + (I think, it's one of the + ones)
Control: Mod Wheel
Destination: Filter1 Cutoff
At this point you'll need to set your filter to the 'closed' position - the lowest frequency of your lead that you want (make sure the mod wheel is turned all the way down). Once you get a nice low end for your lead, crank the mod wheel up all the way. adjust the range until you set a nice upper limit - too high will sound bad. I find that there is a range where the filter sweeps sound the best.
Now as you're playing a melody, flick the mod wheel open and closed on notes you want to add additional bite to - voila, the synth should start singing the melody.
cheers!
-Alex
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Aug 16, 2004 21:04
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thanks a lot ... will give it a shot !
plur .. boom ! |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Aug 17, 2004 09:07
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Could have a really tight phaser sound on it too...something weird and wobbly like Waves Enigma.
Could be a synthesis technique, ie, one of those phoneme sounds like Space Cat. But then again, could also be a normal lead sound with an insert filter like Sinus Multilens. Sounds a tad bit reduced, so an automated Multilens could conceivably do this.
It's hard to reverse engineer most electronic music, especially psy
Nice track tho.
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