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Trouble with the very low-end
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 12:54
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I'm fairly comfortable with the rest of my mixing, but I only have 5" cones on my monitors and the very low end has always bit a bit of an issue for me.
I'm not finding the visual meters (such as Voxengo Span) particularly helpful either, as that end just seems to be a rather large bump.
I've got what I consider to be a really great kick+bassline, and it sounds good almost everywhere, but as soon as I take it to a system with a sub (especially in my car) the bottom end sounds either non existant (no sub punch) or totally overwhelming. I even sat with a laptop in my car trying to adjust it, but I found this to be a fairly useless excercise. (This is a really excellent car system too, so don't think I'm sitting in a box with some 6x9's and a cheap kenwood sub or anything)
How do you guys work on an area of sound that is so difficult to hear, everything down there seems very precise - I've heard 60hz for the kick is good for a little boost, and that bass should be a little higher - 80hz for example (no specific frequencies of course) but my adjustments seem to add humming and loads of useless air.
Do I need bigger monitors to hear this kind of information, or are there any formulas I can follow to get this elusive area right? |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
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356
Posted : May 1, 2007 13:16
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I'm sure others will give lots of detailed advice, but one thing a lot of artists I know do (especially when working on smaller monitors) is the actually very lightly touch the edge of the speaker cone to get an idea how much bass energy there is moving the cone. Your mileage may vary, but I've heard a lot of good mixes come out of studios of artists that do this so I wouldn't just discount it out of hand.
 New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
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PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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fitzoyo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 13:22
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Try referencing your mix against similar tracks you like both to your ear and in an analyzer. As far as the eq goes it sounds to me like your either boosting too much or there is some frequency overlap between the kick and the bass. Better monitors though would definitly help. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 13:35
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I touch the speakers too, it's weird. I feel drawn to touching them to feel the energy, didn't know anyone else did it.
Good idea with the analyser and referencing. I guess I'll just have to do a lot of comparisons.
Can't afford new monitors for another year I recon  |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 15:26
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Perhaps if you can't afford a set of good monitors you should invest in a set of good low-midrange headphones. Sony MDR, or Sennheiser hd280...theres a number of others available but these are the ones you will probably hear most when looking for a 100 usd set of phones. Although its not proper to mix I use them when paying attention to texture of sound fine details...panning and often on bass since I also have small crappy monitors.
The thing about sub bass is you don't need a lot at all. It will take away from your mix. You want just enough so that the amplifier will boom it  Layer your bass with a low volume sine wave to give it a little extra. I've found that even with my small monitors if I can get it to sound close to how a real release sounds that when I put it on a sub it does fine.
Don't boost unless you really need to. Most of the time its not needed and some slight cuts will bring out the characteristics you want more effectively than boosting. Boost should be used very sparingly to add a little character.
I really didn't answer your question. It's easy to get the bass there but to get it at the right level in comparison with the rest is another task. I know you said that its a high end car system is psy trance what is usually played on it?
Another factor to consider that you've probably heard a million times on here is your room could cause problems.
if you could post a sample someone could you help you more? |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : May 1, 2007 15:31
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get a spectral analyzer, such as Gliss EQ 2 - this can help you see if anything is really, really way out of place in the mix. Not ideal, but a step in the right direction. You don't need to do comparisons, and in fact I'd suggest you don't - your mix is always going to be unique, and therefore look different! What you don't want are big spikes and lumps in the mix - if the bass area is way louder then the rest, then you know there is a problem!
As has been said, don't boost or cut EQ unless you can hear what are doing - how can you possibly have any degree of control?
Invest in headphones, my suggestion is the senny HD-25's which have served me very well indeed, and will let you hear all the way down.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 16:06
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dija - no doubt my room is a factor at the moment, in fact a load of foam should be arriving today so I'm hoping that will add a little bit extra to my mixes
I have a pair of Sennheiser HD650's, some of the best they do I think. I do check on them occasionally and that does help, but it's still no substitute for the detail of a really big speaker.
I mostly play psy in my car, but anything goes really. I always listen to my mixes on the way to work to get ideas and compare to other releases.
In the car I have a W7 (check the reviews)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=9
And the detail of the bass is really something to behold, if I can get that kind of detail in the very low frequencys that some tracks have got, I'll be very happy.
I wouldn't mind hearing from Colin OOOD actually, as the VOC track 'Heart of Gold' has absolutely stunning low end, its spectacular down there. No 'boom' or 'hum' just really hard solid meat.
Do you think mastering helps when it comes to making the parts you can't hear a bit more solid?
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : May 1, 2007 16:08
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
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147
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1441
Posted : May 1, 2007 16:34
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Seems like a decent sub, no frequency response figures? At 20kg it should be able to fart out some real low end though! Never heard of this company either, do they make good subwoofers?
Sorry can't add much to the topic but maybe check out Voxengo LF-Punch/LF-Max or Waves Rbass/Maxxbas Plugins (tune them to the key of your bass)
Then again without proper referencing there's no way you can know how much sub to add..
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 1, 2007 16:54
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I've been into car stereo for about 10 years, it's my 6th and final sub, no longer the need to upgrade!
Yes it's large.. and it does pump it out, but I rarely play it loudly (ear damage and all that) it sounds amazing at all volumes. You never knew there was so much detail down in the low end! |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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37
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1033
Posted : May 1, 2007 19:26
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Do you have a Laptop?
If so, take it into you car Adjust it there.
I would....
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 2, 2007 01:12
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Haha, actually I have tried this but my laptop is quite old so I have to run an extension cable outside as the battery is shot and only lasts about 5 minutes.
I think this is a bit overkill for getting perfect bass, if people can do it in their studios I don't see why I should use an earth shattering subwoofer just to get my low end right.
Still, might give it another go tomorrow.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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Posted : May 2, 2007 10:33
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Actually I personally think, that most of the psytrance is acutally having problems with the very low end, or is completely missing it.
So many full on tracks actually just don't have the really really low end...
I don't like that...
I love when its really deep. Those hard hitting, agressive kinds of kicks and basslines which are only crisp but do not have a deep warmth are very common...
mabye because not everybody has a car like you 
You can learn in you car.
I always learn it when I hear a track of mine at a party first time. After that I know how to adjust the low end. Sometimes I took notes during live Acts.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
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379
Posted : May 2, 2007 14:40
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i have only one good advice !
Sell your car, and buy some expensive monitors ! hehe
I am kidding !
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 2, 2007 15:29
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i know how you can fix your problem, just cut all the lowend and the problem is gone
haha (being ironic)
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