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trance styles are just attempts to describe music.
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
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8649
Posted : Nov 8, 2008 10:10
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On 2008-11-07 16:54, kin beat wrote:
Pavel, make sure this thread gets to the museum area ASAP...
our sons could avoid many wars if this info is available in their near future.
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No deal. Our sons will still need some forum drama.
  Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
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8779
Posted : Nov 8, 2008 18:21
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@ocelot: Wisely & Nicely said
bravo
lets stomp 
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Nov 9, 2008 01:53
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On 2008-11-07 21:44, ZeRo wrote:
without labels the music would all be the same and we would consider skazi to be identical with ocelot. words are the way that we establish a relation between our selves and the external world. if those labels are imprecise than that is the fault of the person selecting them, not the fault of teh word itself. Categorization is necessary to separate the world, to take a chaotic jumble and formulate it.
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that doesnt change the fact that your words- however carefully chosen, cannot substitute for listening to the music. and actually words- not matter how carefully chosen, tell you absolutely NOTHING about the actual music- only what words some human thinks of in reaction to the music.
give it up 
i like pavels response. its pretty honest but not very definable i guess... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Nov 9, 2008 02:22
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complicated issue
20 edits and im not sure what to say...
its true sometime it sux , but sometime its essential.
i meen its just way to avoid that 95% shit music in the scene , each according to his own taste.
and if anyone can categorise talpa , texas faggott & simpon p... this will be amazing.. cause as far i get it all the greatest music is out of this genres anywayz  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
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8779
Posted : Nov 9, 2008 10:35
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On 2008-11-09 02:22, Elad wrote:
and if anyone can categorise talpa , texas faggott & simpon p... this will be amazing..
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psychedelic 
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
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1223
Posted : Nov 9, 2008 13:45
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Categorize - which is now being used in this thread - is not the same thing as to describe!!!
A definition can and should describe the nature (essence) of a phenomena without the need (obligation) to categorize it...
Concepts and definitions are a key factor in our success to create, absorb and apply knowledge...its only negative, and i believe Ocelot refers also to this, when such definitions imply the stagnation of its subject...though music (art) is probably the worst field to create definitions (concepts) as it relates to no absolut truth or fact and has no other primal propose than the exteriorization of one's being...
@Elad
texas faggott is "expired cotton candy" psy-trance...
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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thinkingsound
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
105
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 13:29
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Trance styles are NOT just attempts to describe music. It may seem like a daunting task for the beginner to tell one from the next and to say just a box invented in the mind of the person trying to describe the music is extremely absurd. That itself is a boxed thought. Would it not be best to just say that trance is limited with that type of attitude?
Music is as real just like the 50 different styles are real... If the music comes first then why write it? Its already there.
Please list music that has influenced you and you will find style in your own little box.
Traditional music and indigenous music are not associated with World music, Huh?? Wrong, indigenous music which is geared towards ceremonial or ritual, and religious. Traditional is linked towards folk music. Both are styles of World Music. Why are we so different?
Unless your speaking of music without humans then I must say music doesn't come first if a human wrote it.
Is the ocelot sound not a style? no, its just music. Huh??? Its not psychedelic, dance, dark, morning etc. because its just techno music... No, its the ocelot sound which is a style.
[/quote]
"the style is just someones attempt to analyze it in terms of their previous experience."
[/quote]
How do you know this as fact? Here goes that hippie word that explains it all "experience". If you could explain the experience in detail, please. The analysts you speak of are the ones who fund your life. You should listen to them it may help you improve your sound to where its not just music.
Its OK for psytrancers to be Elitist. Its not OK to think we are any different from any other form(style)of music and culture. Style is flavor and without flavor its bland... |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 18:25
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yes, trance styles are only attempts to describe music.
bottom line- this is what gets my undies in a bundle-
when you hear some words about some music, you may think that you will like the music, or you may think you will not like the music but you dont KNOW anything, until you listen to the MUSIC
not the WORDS about the music, but the actual music.
the words and descriptions are parasitic upon the actual music.
mr. thinkingsound-
i think you are not trying to even understand what i mean by experience. i mean simply "experience". as in "experience" do you know what that word means literally? look it up. in this case i mean "the experience of listening to the music" which is different and more informative, musically speaking, than "the experience of listening to some guy lecture about music"
and, no usually the people who book me and pay for that are not analysts. i get a lot of responses from people who book me and usually its something like "thank god for this fresh air..." usually i speak to the people who are bothered by all the crap and noise and blah blah blah and want to bring it back to the music. they seek me out.
if i stopped speaking to people with music, i guess my bookings would dry up and i would get a job again.
i think what i am saying is ultimately anti-elitist
(although there is nothing wrong with some elitism when i comes to bush for example... he's a moron and so are people who voted for him so i dont mind being elitist in that sense)
in the end there is music.
then there are a whole lot of people on trance forums who chat and we need to remember that the words used on forums and in descriptive text used to sell or review music is not the same as the actual music.
if i describe to you a peice of music that i found wonderful- and if i say it was fullon with a touch of progressive and dark etc... this says NOTHING about the actual peice of music.
just my boxes and my way of thinking.
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
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2184
Posted : Nov 12, 2008 19:37
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I don't really get the point of this thread, other than to point out an idealism.
Of course I (and a lot of people here I'm sure) would much rather listen to music to know it than hear someone's adjectives about it, or even adjectives of their feelings when listening to it (unless I trusted their taste like my brother). That's why there's clips on the sites where you purchase it (and we want to hear longer clips, even).
"bottom line- this is what gets my undies in a bundle-
when you hear some words about some music, you may think that you will like the music, or you may think you will not like the music but you dont KNOW anything, until you listen to the MUSIC not the WORDS about the music, but the actual music. "
an den? We know that. or I do anyway.
(Sounds like you're venting some personal experience. If so please share so there's some context...)
Thanks
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 00:52
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just pointing out something i thought was blindingly obvious but some still argue against...
words about music are merely derivitive works and of questionable value
now is a time of a lot of new music coming that defies todays categorization.
take notice.
listen to the tunes.
i dare say that you can't really argue with the fact that words are no substitute for actually hearing it.
this concept started for me when i heard some music i really liked that earlier someone had called "fullon" and as some know, i can't stand most fullon... so i didn't even know what i was missing until i heard the actual music... and sure enough- it was sort of "fullon" but rather good! and words cannot describe in what way it was good.
so the point of this thread was a reminder of something really obvious. of course its totally obscured by now...
(reviews are of questionable value as they are largely promotional and written by friends for friends. you will not know the top 10 trance cd's in terms of sales by the reviews section of isratrance for example. you will not know the 10 hidden gem cd's by this review section either. you will see what people want to promote...but thats a different topic...)
see you folks in psyport forum. they at least have pictures and profiles there so its a bit more civil than here i would say. |
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 07:28
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Off course no words can parallel the feelings of music. As much as i prefer the non categorization of psychedelic music, it can be useful at times as a filter. Once again that is limiting the scope for new experiences but some just find it useful.
But personally, i will go with what Pavel said earlier. There two types of music. That which i like and that which i don't. Better left there
Peace |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 08:44
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do not conform to a style. Go make ur own music. Do not copy , for there are others doing the same.
By music i mean musica data, not electrix part.
sad to say, most ppl here wit blue nicks are electrecians wit sick Fx in their tracks but hardly and musical data in wit it .
So there u go, If the Scene is being led by 'conforming' artists , who smell like each others farts, u know where to head.
Most awesome music of this genre has been clearly left neglected. and will be the case so on , Till we have some originality. Some head liners. We need to break free from psytrance, and go ahead and start calling ourselves psydm. Cos frankly thats wat we are and like. |
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thinkingsound
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
105
Posted : Nov 13, 2008 11:22
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If trance styles are truly only attempts to describe music then why is it called trance? If my experience in words describes a form of music as bubble trance then Mr.Ocelot is calling my experience a false reality. No ones experience is false in their box or should their reality be pushed up a rectum. So, Hopefully this is his opinion since he explained one reason why the USA isn't big due to the "rockin roll" music which happens to be a style. Maybe he should consult Tower Records and sue them for filing "Vector selector" under "Rock&Pop". It should be OK since trance is also just a bullshit box thought of someones confused experience attempting to describe music, right?
The people who book and pay him are the middle men/women know as the crew. Its the people who pay to go and buy the music that are the ones for whom I was referring towards. These are the people who pay for the artist experiences and shouldn't get upset if they call it victoryTrance or whatever.
There is nothing fullon about the fullon style although its called fullon so people who don't care for that style of music can go elsewhere. Change is good and will continue as long as these haters of categorization of psychedelic music don't take the thrown.
Music is sound and to describe it is free will.
I recall someone here saying they liked Jazz music. Do they not know that there is no such sound as Jazz music simply because its just music. |
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : Nov 18, 2008 20:35
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If categorization is useful, and isn't taken too seriously, so be it me thinks |
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
632
Posted : Nov 18, 2008 21:14
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-07 12:37, Pavel wrote:
There are only 2 genres. What I like and what I don't
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Completely agree! |
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