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trance+politics Or trance politics
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 16:31
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Here in Sweden at least, we don't have enourmous dammes or many big nuclear plants.
We have many smaller plants spread out over the country, supplying locally, and selling what is left over to be transported into the cities.
It quite cheap and easy to power a farm with wind and/or solar yourself as well. Quite a few big farms here do already. |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 16:46
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On 2004-10-06 16:02, Spindrift wrote:
My water is carried a few meters...my electricity is local...
The wood from my heating is from the local forest etc, etc....
You should check out life in the country a bit, and learn what you are talking about.
It's not enough to have a quick think to understand everything...sometimes you have to look deeper (try psychedelic plants, they can help you do that), and experience can help as well.
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Spindrift i think u live in sweden or? Ok, there u got a lot of forest and now think about if all swedish(ok you are not alot there) would go and take wood to heat, there would be no wood anymore after a while.
And think further than ur country, there are lot of area without lot of natural resources, so what then?
The point is, u can live in nature. Maybe some million people can live in nature. But not all people from cities can move into nature.
@Pointy living natural is hard if u really want to do it. U must change ur complete live, for example u use computer that is a very polluting product and so on. It is very complex and hard to live in a absolutly natural way.
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EYB wrote:
Accept the world in this way it is, and it is utopic to think u could change it this way.
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Don't take it out of context, it was related to the 'move out of cites' problem.
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Psilocibino
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
243
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 16:48
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i think it's a matter of using the several energies wisely. why do governments continue to use oil/gasoline as a fuel, when Hidrogen veicules has been already made, and it's a non-poluent kind of fuel?! why dont they improve solar and eolic energie, it's free and wisely used, it could be the solution for thousands od families in the world yet without energie!
It's all about money, we all could live in the city and not be touched by all this inconvenients, but the government want $$$, so you have 2 choises: stay in the city and enjoy all modernities and breath that poluted air, or move to the coutry and live a quiet and healthier life!!
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:18
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I heard that in 60' there been a project to use a water as fuel .
Now to your question Psilocibino , i know little economy so my answer is . There are many sources of energy we can use as fuel , which maybe less efficient but more healthy to breath . The main reason why they not is what would happen if someday we will go to water as fuel for instance. All oil structure , all car structure , all engine structure and many more will be ruined in one second , the main threat is that we can harm but such change more than we harm our mother nature . Think how many uneployed will be after such change . It would be global economic disaster . Trust me politicians know and see much more and wider than me and you so do not say such things . It's not about moeny at all . Two buildings fall in USa and whole economy falls , think what would happen next . |
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Pointy
Started Topics :
6
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278
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:18
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On 2004-10-06 16:46, EYB wrote:
@Pointy living natural is hard if u really want to do it. U must change ur complete live, for example u use computer that is a very polluting product and so on. It is very complex and hard to live in a absolutly natural way.
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I never spoke about "absolutely natural way".
You donīt want to understand me it seems.
Itīs about improving what we got.
Psilocibinoīs example with the fuel for cars is a very good one. Itīs not about people getting back on horses or something, but to use the least unpolluting fuel possible.
We donīt do that. Although there is the knowledge and possibility to improve, money interests stop us from evolving in a positive way here.
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EYB wrote:
Accept the world in this way it is, and it is utopic to think u could change it this way.
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Don't take it out of context, it was related to the 'move out of cites' problem.
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I didnīt take it out of the context, read your own post and the one you are relating to again. No word about "move out of the cities" 
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:21
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I don't know about your pollution but i live in almost farm near big cement factory which caused astma to whole my family and many other years ago , so probably farms are not safe today . Go live in mauntans , Georgia .PPL live ther over 100 years |
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Pointy
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:27
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On 2004-10-06 17:18, Dimitri wrote:
Two buildings fall in USa and whole economy falls , think what would happen next .
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The US economy has been down before the fall of the towers already.
If people donīt buy what getīs produced, the economy is not expanding and in such situations war is a good way of bringing the economy up again.
You are using up a lot of resources in war, which need to get replaced and that is good for the economy. |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:31
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It was metaphoric phrase , Pointy . With your last sentence i agree it was one of reasons to war . |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
869
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:31
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On 2004-10-04 19:30, Dimitri wrote:
Pointy the only problem is that we are similar only in psychedelic music like aspect not other . We all have different views on different subjects . What guy offer is to disccuss about something which has nothing to do with music and with ppl like me who not see anything more than music style in psy trance .
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I don't agree with you...You may have different views, but this music was (fact) created with the Hippy Ideals in mind....There is no variation from that fact.
What it has become now, is more commercialized and for that reason, we get up here and try to maintain it's purity by "preaching" what this music is about. It's not about putting your picture on your album cover to be the next best thing...And if you notice, once the picture goes on the album, that's it...Take Yahel and Astrix for instance...COMMERCIAL CRAP with no feeling.
Ok, now the ideal trancends the music...It is deeper than that...The music is only a tool to bring everyone together. So, for you to say we are all different and have different views, you are right in your customs and traditions....But the purest group of us "trancers" want nothing but peace, love and trance....How are we so different in that sense? We are not.
We've all at some point felt that society wsn't for us...We've all felt at some point that "mankinds" way of financial thinking is bullshit and needs to be changed..
George Carlin said it best when he said, "War has always been about power and financial gain for the rich...Throughout time, the property owners and elite have sent the poor or lower class children to be killed for their own financial benefit"...AND THAT HAS NOT CHANGED!!!!
THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ALL AGAINST....THAT IS WHAT THIS MUSIC IS ABOUT.....The basic Bull Shit attitude that would cause someone like Bush to send our lower class children to war to die when he wouldn't even go himself...And for what? Oil? For who? Our gas prices are at record numbers. Who benefits? Not me! Not you! Not even them when you really think about it! No one does.
So, now do you think we are in LA LA land with no real, valid thoughts of what this world should be?
I do know it was a lot better in the days of Shamans and tribal rituals as that was the purest way for people to become one with themselves. If you can do that, your life will have meaning. assumption is the mother of all fuckups. |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:37
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I have other question , Who are you to judge what is commercial or not ? Are you known standart ? Are you standart critic ? For some it is commercial for some it is not . You can't say what commercial and what not unless you see strategy of music promotion which you won't see ever.
Actuly it is realy dumb idea to say that Bush made this war for oil which i see as Euro Anarchy Illness . This war had much more reasons than just oil(nation want , ratings , father loss in war , terrorism , hate to Husein , show with who they deal with , ecomic raise and oil it is last in whole list order) . Moreover it increased prise to oil world wide but it is not an issue . Usa not controling oil departure and export but once again it is not matter at all . Problem is that we blame goverment much more than it needed and not think that we should be part of it to change than "democraticly correct debates" . Continue to watch 9/11 with democratic popcorn in mouth . |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:51
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Leo , powerplant , water resources and other shit are depends on region only . Some places like Scandinavia where settlement are samll and far from each other Nuclear powerplant shoud solve nothing but think NY with wind powerplant , it would fly like helicopter with that kind of ventil . Ecomonicly your country waste money on such way of settlement because it much harder and much less efficient to keep small powerplants for small settlements
BTW i read research that many sources or power like coal , fuel , hydro are more dangerous than nuclear unless it explode caused by sort of failure like Chernoble . |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:52
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On 2004-10-06 16:46, EYB wrote:
Spindrift i think u live in sweden or? Ok, there u got a lot of forest and now think about if all swedish(ok you are not alot there) would go and take wood to heat, there would be no wood anymore after a while.
And think further than ur country, there are lot of area without lot of natural resources, so what then?
The point is, u can live in nature. Maybe some million people can live in nature. But not all people from cities can move into nature.
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If there is not enough wood to heat, you have to use something else. Wheather or not you live in the country or the city.
You don't have to use wood because you don't live in the country, just as you don't have to use nuclear power if you live in the city.
Sure there is places without much resources, and it's harder to live there.
Don't see that it would be easier to solve the lack of resources by moving in to cities though.
You'r confusing the issue.
We are disscussing wheater it uses more or less resources with people living in cities.
What resources they use is something else.
And come on..."maybe some million people can live in nature".
What do you mean with that??
Thousands of millons of people live in the country already. And there is still is no need for compact living there, there is still plenty of space in most countries.
Sweden is extreme, because we have several square kilometers per person available.
Not all countries is so sparsely populated, but very few countries would have a problem to house their inhabitants geographically.
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 17:53
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Billions of ppl can't heat with wood . Think about China or India for instance . Wood burn in large numbers release gasses which destroy atmosphere aswell. Think about food provision . |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 18:07
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On 2004-10-06 17:51, Dimitri wrote:
Leo , powerplant , water resources and other shit are depends on region only . Some places like Scandinavia where settlement are samll and far from each other Nuclear powerplant shoud solve nothing but think NY with wind powerplant , it would fly like helicopter with that kind of ventil . Ecomonicly your country waste money on such way of settlement because it much harder and much less efficient to keep small powerplants for small settlements
BTW i read research that many sources or power like coal , fuel , hydro are more dangerous than nuclear unless it explode caused by sort of failure like Chernoble .
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True that it's impractical to power new york with windpower.
Thats more something for a per farm basis.
Big power plants is at the moment still necessary to have huge cities working.
The huge damm projects, or nuclear plants might be very efficient, but I would think it would be very nice if we could do without them.
I rather see some solar panels and windturbines on the houses anyway.
And sure, there is plenty of research made by nuclear lobbyists claiming that it's the most harmless method of generating power.
For me the thought of having all the radioactive waste handed over to coming generations for 100's of thousands of years is not ok though.
I would't shit on my childrens lawn, and I wouldn't dig down some radioactive barrels on their yard either. |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 6, 2004 18:14
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I don't think we can talk about that online because i'm dislectic and can expres myself right on forums . I hope some day i will fly to Sweden or you to Israel and we will talk .
BTW i'm much more convinient and logicly correct in voice conversation . |
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