Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 12:13:06
Is the trance or the psychedelic scene today really forming and giving shape to a new way of living creating a paradigm shift changing mindsets, or is it just simply conforming to the existing way and doing things differently..from the looks of it from the fact that my last thread had nothing to do with politics nor religion nor anything in violation of the forum guidelines...i was only saying why is it that Pop Music and pop culture have such a pervasive and intrusive influence on our lives and while we all know trance must be given chance we are all aware that the time is now,..trance has brought us all together...whether u r from israel or lebanon or germany or usa or uae or india or pakistan doesnt really matter--in a state of trance there are no boundaries there are no limits--and this state can be manifested in its true form in its true spirit--through sound through cutting edge sound and ancient methods of tribal drumming circles etc --the tragedy of the commons is that they like words and that is the pop syndrome--the beauty and the essence of trance is that no words are needed, ...can a we establish a State of Trance where the only form of justice is dance
otherwise the tag line Trance Forming Culture looses its essence which is in my opinion is huge insult to its creator
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
JohnTaramas
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 15:04
ofcourse we can establish something like that, that's why we are here anyway.
but you know, as a 'common, my personal tragedy is that i instinctively analyze the words i hear much and that really affects the way i feel, everyday.
here we meet both trance forming and conforming culture, usualy one fighting the other, or they simply coexist with an awful essence spreading in the air...
i dislike stagnation in all aspects, it makes me feel weak and ill, it's so displeasing.. i can't keep on dancing in a festival in wich i see only money makers, no no's, violation of human rights, cd resellers, envious creatures marching around showing themselves how kickass persons they think they are.
i'm sorry for all this misery i describe but this is what i get some time now. i can't wait for things to take another direction, i'd give all my help if asked.
i like us in here, we're all a bunch of wankers trying to find something all the time and when we get close to it, here comes the next..
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 18:34
Ah, that’s what it all was about...
Why is it that “we are all aware that the time is now”? I am not aware of that. And what kind of chance do you have in mind? Are you talking about becoming more vocal in promoting psy trance and the “psy way of life”? Or are you talking about cleaning up (the gist I get from John’s post)?
Or is it all about something else that I am totally missing?
P.S. Glad to see that verbena & mint helped.
Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 19:10
well at the crux of it there system of pop culture (music products technology opinions) etc all are driven by public opinion and publicity stunts to drive and promote as well enhance differences...poor people rich people those people criminal people rather than seeing people as people the present situation call it what u want enhances differences- rather than focusing on the similarities- even companies like apple uses THINK DIFFERENT--how much more different can we get? and beyond a point the differences dissipate and everything becomes the same but not uniform..intelligence shows us that being different is tolerable but when the difference becomes the only focus we begin to separate and at that stage we separate ourselves and the separation is labeled "difference" and promoted under different brands- brand india, brand usa, brand israel brand spain brand china brand iran...large scale multi-level-marketing - everything is equated with a cost and a benefit and after that things go out of focus and another big event ,another diversion- some charity, do good for people -more the merrier syndrome- sell sell sell- pollute the Boom festival with Red Bull commercials --without money and finance everyone will be handicapped and crippled -but hey guess what when a someone gets amputated or looses an eye or both they continue to live and be creative and progress in fact their other senses become stronger- am saying reject the whole system -no what i am saying is that with open source and technology and the intelligence the people in the scene have money can be by passed
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 19:39
I see (hopefully)...
You’re talking about de-commercialization of The Scene, right? Bypass sponsors, big distributors and pop-minded crowds and go back to the grassroots movement. Smaller parties on a shoestring budget. Dedicated few spreading psy love (mostly among themselves) with no commercial incentive. Free mingling across political borders and genre boundaries. Is that what you’re talking about? If so, I imagine that’s how the US scene looks already. I may be wrong...
Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 20:43
"if you build it they will come"...not only did they come they invaded and pretty much plundered..little little become too much and too much become not enough and abundance became scarcity and plenty became empty and sweet went bitter and so on...same story of suffering and then solution to suffering ...
indulgence is okay, interference to a certain degree is fine but perversion and corruption using the carrot and the stick and playing fetch is f***d up...
6.5 billion people on earth
over $11trillon made each year and you are telling me there is shortage of money and finance? from which angle...from the looks of it there is too much money and it has no where to go and because it has no where to go it lands up in strange places and does strange things..and differences are projected and hyped up prophesied and super-sized, dramatized, as well as actualized which is the real tragedy and then...
what has happened to the psy scene is pretty much what has happened to most tribal socities-under the banner/branding of civilization/corporatization, promise of better perversion of perfection has occured...artists who didnt give bumble beez of hoola hoop of dump of celebritydoom have agents, promoters cheating artists, artists cheating promoters, bigger and louder vs discrete and subtle...both are models and independantly both are okay..but just remember that like it or not its all connects-
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
Maine Coon
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 02:15
Yeah, it all sucks. And it’s all connected too. You are right. I am sure you realized by now - we actually are discussing politics here, although so far it’s unlikely we’ll be banned for it.
The idea of bypassing (rather than killing, robbing or taming) the big ugly capitalist is actually quite old. It was developed by Prince Kropotkin around 1900. Interesting stuff. IMHO, it’s a noble idea, but that’s about all it is.
I am afraid it’s not big ugly capitalists or big mean governments that make communities like this mutate or fall apart. It’s the people themselves. Both producers and consumers. They eat away at their own body. The big ugly guys just “help” to speed things up. Once you start caring about the numbers, the whole army of middlemen and marketers of all stripes jumps on board. So, even if you don’t sell out artistically – you eat away at the scene financially.
Nobody forces anybody’s hand. I don’t think there is a conspiracy of Russian amphetamine dealers that scares producers into writing 200 BPM music. Just like I don’t think Astrix is a powerful mob godfather who makes sure that everybody copies his style. People do it for themselves – while seeking popularity. Having an agent in Ibiza may help you gain popularity without compromising your music. Or it may not. It’s a step away from the tribal ideal either way.
This profanation, commercialization, corruption and ultimately destruction of everything good and pure may be inevitable globally – but I believe it’s avoidable locally! Keep it pure for yourself and connect with others who think and feel the same way. Stay in touch with good friends. Avoid fakers. Make do without middlemen, if you can. That’s about it. Eventually your network will be a little scene of its own. And keep Red Bull commercials out of your parties.
You are right – “they” always come. But “they” don’t have to get everything and everybody. If they don’t get you or your music – that’s already a small victory, isn’t it?
Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 14:11
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
suhmus
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 16:29
^^
Said it.
WE r all 1. - a pity that the majority thinks otherwise.
@ xolvexs - thnks for the video frend.great spirit
JohnTaramas
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 17:24
it's hard to realize and support ideas like these because ét's kinda inconvenient when some more than the basic needs are covered in every day basis. this is logical to happen, it's human nature.
human nature includes though more important features such as our ability for more complex thinking than just feeling warm and safe with our needs covered. for example we are able to think and act (the more the better) as one organism. everyone knows what is good for himself so maybe he also knows what is good for some other also.. i mean what really keeps us apart is what we own mostly or in what god we believe, what state we live in, details imo, details that hide from us the real deal finally.
Maine Coon
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 22:06
Good video. Something to think about. Of course, you can remove all borders and have it even worse than it is now: one tyranical World Government over everybody's heads. Unity has its flipside too. 1930s Germany was quite united, and so was its communist counterpart. I wouldn't want ot see the whole world united in this scary way. But I digress. How does it all relate to psy trance? Didn't we already remove the borders? Aren't we already a world community? Aside from occasional arguments about sub-genres - how are we different from what this video describes?
Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 10, 2010 13:32
united not by authority or government ...unity in its truest sense like the geese when they migrate or the schools of fish ...ur body mind and spirit are in unity with each other and u cannot separate the three..how much ever force or conviction or authority u put u cannot..the animal, plant and the mineral kingdoms see the world as one living entity, they seek no one approval for movement--they swim fly run jump crawl climb --whether u have $10billion security fence or not- if you think you will be united by someone or something then in absence of that unity will disappear and that under the name of "maintaining" unity authority will be imposed--the whole misinterpretation of UNITY took place when the John Dickenson said "United we stand divided we fall" - and all nations indoctrinate this to little 3 year olds ..unity then becomes weakness and then unity needs to be protected hence nations need armies and armies need weapons ..unity is an experience u must feel it not see it or hear about or promote it ...unity is there in nature-sun rises in the east and sets in the west theres unity in that , water gets the clothes wet whether u in the pacific ocean or in the caspian sea theres unity in that...oil from saudi arabia and oil from venuzela burns at the same temperature theres unity in that , ... theres unity in everything other than nations thats funniest thing thats the joke---even in religions theres unity--i dont need a passport or visa to enter a mosque , synagogue, temple, church, graveyard..in trance there is unity--
when a dj or an artist is playing a track people are dancing when he/she stops playing people stop dancing thats unity -- this should help you think more clearly
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
JohnTaramas
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Posted : Jun 10, 2010 17:17
Quote:
On 2010-06-09 22:06, Maine Coon wrote:
How does it all relate to psy trance? Didn't we already remove the borders? Aren't we already a world community? Aside from occasional arguments about sub-genres - how are we different from what this video describes?
psytrance, at this time, is a place for us to meet. music in general is directly related with societies, could be said that it's a mirror of them in a way..
yes most of us don't have borders inside us. last summer a friend from India needed loads of papers and invitations to be able to visit us so borders in real world do exist even if we removed them from inside..
before real borders open, something we could do is prepare our self for it. understand the power of unity and start applying in our life, control our ego and avoid it from blinding us. no serious change can happen in small amount of time, what matters really is enriching your perception but the direction of the enrichment is a choise of yours
Maine Coon
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Posted : Jun 10, 2010 17:47
Quote:
On 2010-06-10 13:32, Xolvexs wrote:
united not by authority or government
Yes, I know what you (and the guy in the video) meant. However, there is no way to properly dismantle that authority. Anarchist ideas (or anarcho-communist in your and Kropotkin’s case) are fresh and interesting but they can not be implemented, unless it’s done in an isolated homogenous group like the Amish in Pennsylvania or the old-style Orthodox in Siberia. That’s the only way to bypass the authority and the big ugly capitalist – to live under the radar, to escape those guys quietly. I am not sure too many people are up to that. And on a larger scale it would mean having to change the system. Unfortunately, any attempt to “change the world” just leads to more mess, blood and tears. And in the end it’s always exact same shit – just different faces on podiums and TV screens.
People want to see things changed. But they don’t want them to change too much. So, the wise guys create false dichotomies, like “left – right”, “Democrats – Republicans”, “Arabs – Jews” etc. and give you an illusion of choice. I remember this teenager asking me (some time in the late 90s): “So, whose fan are you – Britney Spears’ or Christina Aguilera’s”. And I thought – how smart! You create a fake show of rivalry, give people a false dichotomy and “empower” them by an illusion of free choice. Teenagers spend their days arguing with each other about which bimbo is better, while wearing appropriate tee-shirts and buying their CDs. Isn’t this exactly what we face every 4 years in our “adult lives”? “Change” my foot!..
Quote:
water gets the clothes wet whether u in the pacific ocean or in the caspian sea
Yes, I tried both and got equally wet.
Quote:
...in trance there is unity--
when a dj or an artist is playing a track people are dancing when he/she stops playing people stop dancing thats unity -- this should help you think more clearly
So, for the third time – what’s the problem with psy trance?
There is some relationship to trance in this whole discussion, right?
P.S. Good video again.
Maine Coon
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Posted : Jun 10, 2010 18:22
Quote:
On 2010-06-10 17:17, JohnTaramas wrote:
music in general is directly related with societies, could be said that it's a mirror of them in a way..
I was wondering about that for awhile, by the way. Full On in Israel, Uplifting in Greece, Darkpsy in Russia, Suomi in Finnland – the same psy trance root produced so different branches in different cultures...
Quote:
before real borders open, something we could do is prepare our self for it. understand the power of unity and start applying in our life, control our ego and avoid it from blinding us. no serious change can happen in small amount of time, what matters really is enriching your perception but the direction of the enrichment is a choise of yours
But this is exactly what I see right here, in this forum! Isn’t this the whole point of IsraTrance? (And by the way, I believe these are exactly the reasons why political discussions are discouraged here – they quickly lead to fragmentation and ego trips)
You and I communicate just fine with no regard for physical borders. We have a common interest in psy trance. We have a common interest in eliminating fakeness from all aspects of our lives. We even have a common language to express our thoughts.
You can see people from Russia and Lithuania complementing each other on their work and helping each other with advice. Go lurk in Russian political forums and read what is said there about Lithuania and its people. Go read what Lithuanian forums say about Russians. Sick stuff! But here all this political shit washes away and you see these people join in a magical fellowship. I’ve seen no other place like this one yet.
Sorry about esoteric examples again. I guess you can just substitute “Russia” and “Lithuania” with “Greece” and “Macedonia”, if that sounds better to you.
So, to answer the original question – yes, there are both tendencies, just like you said. But the scales tip towards forming rather than conforming. More people join from the outside world into this network and choose unity over political fragmentation. And political antagonisms don’t make it in here (mostly). Life is good.
